Flight Question How to turn the Delta-Glider XR1?

Malkom K

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I am having trouble with the Delta-Glider XR1. When I try to turn it by my usual method - banking 90 degrees and using up/down to steer - the wings fail - I also get a "wing load at over 85% of maximum" message or something like that. :( I know you're supposed to use shallow banks and the rudder, but this has never worked for me. It turns a small amount then stops, and when I release the rudder it swings back to its original orientation. Would someone tell me the correct way to do this?

Thanks in advance.
 

Carmen A

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To reduce wing load, reduce speed and/or vehicle weight.

Note that due to Orbiter's simplified atmospheric flight, supersonic speeds appear very slow. But convert speed from m/s to kts, kph, or mph, and you'll see yourself maneuvering at speeds as fast as or faster than modern jets.

Even very agile aircraft like the Flanker series do not execute high alpha maneuvers above say, 300+ kph, due to wing stress.
 

Animal

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Shallow banks work without the rudder*, just remember to pitch up enough to keep the nose level. Try something like 30 degrees bank 10 degrees pitch while climbing after takeoff. You should turn slowly to a new heading. Larger amounts of bank generate tighter turns, but require more back pressure on the stick. A good rule of thumb is never let the degree of bank exceed the desired change in heading.

* It's probably easiest to use the attitude hold autopilot in the XR1 and add/subtract pitch and roll via the numpad, especially without a joystick.
 

Spike Spiegel

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It sounds like you just need some more experience flying things that don't behave like high-performance jet fighters. It's more like flying a Cessna or a passenger jet. Don't bother with the rudder; bank gently, and keep the nose up by pulling back (elevon/elevator). Pay attention to the velocity vector indicator on the HUD, if you don't know already. Your nose can be pointing at zero degrees, but you could still be dropping.

You can actually roll pretty far to make a banking turn - just watch how hard you pull back on the stick (if you've got a stick). That's what's stressing the wings.
 

n72.75

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The trick is slow, long, low alpha, turns. Only use the rudders to control slip or correct on final.
 

Carmen A

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If you find being gentle on the XR1 feels tiresome, just use the trim to fly.

Or ... get an XR2 :D The XR2 is more 'jet like' in handling and can do some serious aerobatics if you manage the speed and centre of gravity well. XR1 is easily overloaded by maximum stick deflection.
 

Grover

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with the XRs, you cant fly it like a jet, its not designed primarily for atmospheric flight, so you'll just tear the wings off (shame that that isnt rendered in orbiter), just take it nice and easy, i hardly ever get those warnings when i do a normal flight, only ever pull the stick half back, you'll still turn, just have a little patience and plan your course ahead for a long way to allow for the slow turns
 

Carmen A

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I find that in typical jet maneuvering speeds (say, 0.5-0.9 Mach) the maneuverability is more than decent, even compared to contemporary jets. With the extremely high engine thrust however, the high altitude speed attained by an XR is of course, very much higher than the aircraft speeds of today leading to the assumption that it is fragile to wing loading (not so).

The XR2 and XR5's maneuverability and tolerance to extreme wing loads are what made the early OMP "Top Gun" videos and flight practise sessions possible, before we took things (and other orbinauts) out to space.

The high wing loading of the XR2 makes it a star performer at speed, while the XR5's larger wing area (when unloaded) allows it to fly extremely tight circles at speeds as low as 160m/s at high angles of bank.

And with some practise I fly them at extreme angles of attack to decelerate them rapidly. Modern jets can't do that - save for the most advanced 5th generation craft with TVC.
 

Fabri91

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A little thread-hijack here: still considering wingloading, what would you consider to be a "safe" and somewhat comfortable speed for switching from about 38° AOA flight during reentry to normal, wingborne flight?
 

Grover

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about 2km/s, that gives a nice smooth transition, you will bump up high into the atmosphere, but you'll have low G peaks if you hold a low AoA

it also depends on altitude, lower altitude means lower speed, but 2K is good enough most times i find
 

Carmen A

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A little thread-hijack here: still considering wingloading, what would you consider to be a "safe" and somewhat comfortable speed for switching from about 38° AOA flight during reentry to normal, wingborne flight?

Transitioning from "stalled" flight at high AoA re-entry to lift producing AoA (0-20 or so) creates a hefty shock on the wing structure.

At the angles I usually re-enter I sometimes need to do this transition at hypersonic velocities, so as to try and maintain as much forward velocity as possible.

What I notice is that if I re-enter the craft and roll it sideways I can use rotational RCS and/or rudder control to kick the nose down a bit. Once I get the required nose down angle I can roll the craft level without causing wing shock as normal airflow resumes over the wing. With some practise this "unloading" maneuver becomes part of initiating the first S-turn.

My most audacious flights have involved powered re-entries with 110-180 degrees AoA, hover thrust all the way, and also once in an XR2 re-entering at 120 degrees AoA sideways (which means one wing facing forward).

I simply got the speed down to Mach 10 or so, rolled straight once I got the right angle and no alarms rang as atmospheric lift came on.

Suffice to say we can't do any of these in RL or in present day air/spacecraft as Orbiter does not model G load on the pilot :D

---------- Post added 02-10-11 at 04:22 ---------- Previous post was 02-09-11 at 17:07 ----------

I just did a test flight in OMP and what I concluded was within jet speed (mach 0.5-0.9) the XR1 is more agile than the XR2 especially in post-stall and high alpha maneuvers, due to its short length and light weight.

Just get used to the different airfoils, XR1 is really forgiving even when flying at 0-100m/s but the XR2 excels at higher speeds due to its higher wing sweep.
 

Malkom K

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Hmm, this thread seems to have cropped up a lot more replies than I thought it would. :)

Thanks for the tips, everyone.
 

Linguofreak

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Suffice to say we can't do any of these in RL or in present day air/spacecraft as Orbiter does not model G load on the pilot :D

Not really. I think an XR-1 will break before its pilot will, at least given a proper G-suit for the pilot. It won't take 9 g's, will it?

The limitations on doing these things in real life have more to do with stuff like engine performance.
 
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