Global Warming 2.0 (thread reopened; let's keep it civil)

[steph]

Moderator note: these first five posts moved here from the old 'Next decade may see no warming' thread.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7376301.stm
It seems we won't be having much warming until 2020. I'm starting to believe that the whole cyclical thing might have a greater effect on climate than we thought.

 

[Urwumpe]

I understand "may see no warming" scientifically as "We are not sure, but it might get us into the headlines, so we predict it."

The plot at the bottom of it shows it pretty well - the measurements are pretty off the predictions for the short term.

 

[ijuin]

I am more concerned that some people may take this reprieve from warming as evidence that there will never be any warming at all.

 

[Andy44]

Quick! Suppress this story, it is heresy against the Church of Global Warming! We can't let stuff like this get out!

 

[Eagle]

I wonder if this has anything to do with the complete lack of sunspots?...:dry:

http://www.spaceweather.com/
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/ftpmenu/forecasts/SRS.html

 

[lennartsmit]

Global Warming 2.0 (The wars escalate)

Mod Note: Moved from Immortal Jellyfish thread

Well, global warming and overfishing caused this epidemy (pandemy). Let's kill the source, not the problem. Stop fishing!

 

[Moonwalker]

I won't stop eating fish



And global warming is not stoppable by the way.

 

[T.Neo]

And global warming is not stoppable by the way.

Are you sure? If you subscribe to the mainstream scientific standing, we started global warming, therefore we should be able to stop it.

EDIT:
Unfortunatly, that standing has been adopted by Al Gore and his army of liberal hippies...

 

[Urwumpe]

And global warming is not stoppable by the way.

It sure will be, the climate always went up and down. But is it controllable?

 

[Pilot7893]

If we just left Earth for about 10 thousand years, the earth would actually be able to restore itself.

 

[Moonwalker]

Are you sure? If you subscribe to the mainstream scientific standing, we started global warming, therefore we should be able to stop it.

The mainstream scientific standing meanwhile suggests that the current global warming is not stoppable, even if we stop all our CO2 emissions immediately.

Unfortunatly, that standing has been adopted by Al Gore and his army of liberal hippies.

Al Gore is just a business man and a modern prophet, like any empiric mainstream prophet.

 

[T.Neo]

The mainstream scientific standing meanwhile suggests that the current global warming is not stoppable, even if we stop all our CO2 emissions immediately.

Stopping CO2 emisions won't stop global warming.
I'm talking about mitigation techniques, like forest restoration, or seeding the ocean with algae (wonder what that'll do to the jellyfish...).
If not stoppable, at least slowdownable. Climate change shows that humans can have an effect on the environment (if only a minor one), as long as it is profitable and convenient.

Or maybe cars that suck up CO2. We can only dream...

 

[cjp]

But is it controllable?

Is mankind controllable?

 

[Moonwalker]

Stopping CO2 emisions won't stop global warming.
I'm talking about mitigation techniques, like forest restoration, or seeding the ocean with algae (wonder what that'll do to the jellyfish...).
If not stoppable, at least slowdownable. Climate change shows that humans can have an effect on the environment (if only a minor one), as long as it is profitable and convenient.

Or maybe cars that suck up CO2. We can only dream...

Seeding the ocean with algae already was a fatal flop in some regions.

Past climate changes show that the climate does not care about humans anyway. "Normal" is just something humans like to define, but does not exist really, just like "certainty". Nothing really is certain. Nevertheless humans are able to live almost everywhere on the globe in rather different climates, which almost no other species does.

But it's the human nature to be scared all the time, if there is something we can't control like our machines and tools.

 

[Urwumpe]

Is mankind controllable?

If you look at the mass behavior... yes. Tyrants can obviously do that.

 

[cjp]

If you look at the mass behavior... yes. Tyrants can obviously do that.

So... if global warming is caused by the mass behavior of mankind, and that mass behavior needs to be reversed in direction to stop/reverse global warming, and the only way to reverse that is by controlling it, and if tyrants are the only ones with that amount of control...

I don't want to think about it.

 

[Moonwalker]

Is mankind controllable?

Media and religions do so very well.


-----Post Added-----

So... if global warming is caused by the mass behavior of mankind,...

Not global warming, but the believe of man-made global warming is caused by mass behavior

 

[T.Neo]

Seeding the ocean with algae already was a fatal flop in some regions.

Fatal flop as in It didn't work at all, or fatal flop in that it killed lots of fish (as algal blooms often do).

Past climate changes show that the climate does not care about humans anyway. "Normal" is just something humans like to define, but does not exist really, just like "certainty". Nothing really is certain. Nevertheless humans are able to live almost everywhere on the globe in rather different climates, which almost no other species does.

But it's the human nature to be scared all the time, if there is something we can't control like our machines and tools.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head there, as to why I am very critical of the global warming scare people. There always needs to be a scare, like world war three, or the ozone hole, or killer asteroids, or whatever.

So, if I switch over to fluorecent bulbs today, or buy a hybrid car, is it going to help the situation? Will it lessen the effects of climate change?
Will it make the lives of my children better?

 

[Urwumpe]

So... if global warming is caused by the mass behavior of mankind, and that mass behavior needs to be reversed in direction to stop/reverse global warming, and the only way to reverse that is by controlling it, and if tyrants are the only ones with that amount of control...

I don't want to think about it.

I see you have seen the implications.

If we want to control the climate, we need to control our contribution to it. And our contribution is a bit hard to control. If you attempt using market forces, by supply and demand, you will soon find a country (for example China or India) who will not give a damn on climate, for making bucks.

So, without people themselves becoming responsible for the climate and understanding that "after me the deluge" is pretty egoistic, you can't stop our current amplification of the climate oscillations.

And you can't speak about controlling global warming, if we just leave it to a mass of individuals... even if they generally support the concept - we just not control it in another range. Instead of taking the hands of the steering wheel at 120 km/h, we'll do so at maybe 30 km/h.

Now... who owns the climate?

 

[Eagle]

Ahhhhhhhh, this topic again? Bu-ra-oom. Now don't be hasty, little orcs. It takes a long time to see anything about Climate Change.

Urwumpe, I haven't seen any evidence that supports Global Weirding, the theory that Global Warming will be masked by increased oscillation in climate. Modern weather isn't any weirder than it was 50, 100 years ago or earlier.

Now, humans do effect the environment, you can't live in the environment and not effect it. But I'm quite skeptical that the human impact is anywhere as severe as 99.9% of the studies report. Learn a little bit about the models they use too.

CO2 & Temperature isn't the most important thing to worry about environmentally anyways.