Flight Question getting into orbit?

[Tommy]

While it's not as much fun as launching into orbit, the best place to start with Orbiter is with the "DG Docked to ISS" scenario, in the Deltaglider folder in the scenarios list. Undock (<ctrl> + <d> on the keyboard), and experiment a little using the four main autopilots - Prograde (towards the direction you are travelling), Retrograde (the opposite of prograde), and the Normal and Antinormal AP's (to change the plane of your orbit). Watch what happens in OrbitMFD when burning porgrade and retrograde, and watch AlignPlanesMFD (target the ISS first) when using the normal and anti-normal. Once you get a feel for how an orbit actually works, it's MUCH easier to launch into one.

A quick tip - there is a button on the upper right of OrbitMFD labeled "DIST". This will switch between Radius (distance from the center of the planet) and Altitude (distance from the surface). PeR (Periapsis Radius) will become PeA (Periapsis Altitude). Most of the time Altitude is easier to work with. Also, use the "PROJ" button to set the projection to "Self", as this makes OrbitMFD a bit easier to understand.

i can get the space shuttle to launch and into space. but i can't get it to hold an altitude. what steps am i missing to stay in orbit? im coming into reentry befor i get one orbit done.

The simple answer to this is that you aren't going fast enough. You need to have enough horizontal velocity to create enough centrifugal force to counteract gravity. When you reach your Apoapsis (the highest point of your trajectory) burn prograde until Ecc (in OrbitMFD) is close to zero, and the PeA is very close to the ApA.

 

[rocketdued]

i think theres something wring with the delta glider. i tried flying it yesterday. and no matter what i did to my controls it was really touchy and nose heavy. and would not get into orbit and stay there. i even tried the auto pilot which is a joke in that thing cause it don't work either. so i think it's time to find a differrent space simulator.

 

[Urwumpe]

i think theres something wring with the delta glider. i tried flying it yesterday. and no matter what i did to my controls it was really touchy and nose heavy. and would not get into orbit and stay there. i even tried the auto pilot which is a joke in that thing cause it don't work either. so i think it's time to find a differrent space simulator.

Yes. You likely failed to read the manual...which is a no-go here. Maybe you can find one which does not require you to read the manual first.

Also, if you think the controls are touchy on a Deltaglider, I wonder what kind of flight simulator you fly... only C-130 Hercules? as agile as a carrying yak cow?

Compared to a Su-27 or a F-15, the Deltaglider is slow and friendly.

 

[rocketdued]

i fly any thing from cessna's all the way up to b-29 superfortress's and not a one of them hand like that. now if your telling me i don't know how to fly well guess again. but orbiter on the other hand should not handle the way it does.

 

[Tex]

i think theres something wring with the delta glider. i tried flying it yesterday. and no matter what i did to my controls it was really touchy and nose heavy. and would not get into orbit and stay there. i even tried the auto pilot which is a joke in that thing cause it don't work either. so i think it's time to find a differrent space simulator.

It sounds like the problem you are having is the loss of atmosphere as you climb up to an orbit. Once you get above 25-30km, you will not be able to hold the nose up using the aerodynamic surfaces only because the air is so thin up there. You need to enable the rotation thrusters, Ctrl / (on the numpad) which will allow you to keep the nose pitched up as you climb out of the atmosphere. The general idea is you take-off, pitch up to about 50 degrees until you reach 10km altitude, then begin pitching down to around 15 degrees or so, allowing you to build up the horizontal velocity you need to reach orbit. I'm generally at orbital velocity and have engines shut down at about 75km altitude. You then coast up to the high part of your orbit and do a single prograde burn to equalize your orbit altitude around the Earth, bringing 'Ecc' to 0 on the orbit MFD.

 

[rocketdued]

oh ok. well i'll have to try that. cause thats what i did in the checklist scanario and it kept coming back to earth with total loss of control.

 

[garyw]

Once again RocketDued, LEARN to read the orbit MFD. If you are in space then hitting the ground you are not in ORBIT. Check the Orbit MFD for the ISS. See how the green circle looks? Your ship should look the same when you are done with the ascent.

 

[Tex]

If you fall back to Earth, that surely means you do not have enough horizontal velocity. That is the key to reaching an orbit. The only vertical part of the flight is to get you above the thickest part of the atmosphere. Once you get into the thinner air, you want to pitch down so that you are still climbing, but mostly building up horizontal velocity. Once your speed is around 7500 m/s, then you're basically at orbital velocity and you will see your orbit raising above the Earth on the orbit MFD. Your orbit is indicated as a green circle and the Earth surface is indicated as a white circle on the orbit MFD.

 

[garyw]

i think theres something wring with the delta glider. i tried flying it yesterday. and no matter what i did to my controls it was really touchy and nose heavy. and would not get into orbit and stay there. i even tried the auto pilot which is a joke in that thing cause it don't work either. so i think it's time to find a differrent space simulator.

I can get the delta-glider into orbit. I can get the XR-2, XR-5, Shuttle and many other things into orbit.
If there is a problem you might want to remove Orbiter and reinstall as your setup may be corrupt.

 

[rocketdued]

i have LEARNED to read the manaul. but that and the tutorials are a joke because it doesn't work like the manual describes!!!

 

[garyw]

i have LEARNED to read the manaul. but that and the tutorials are a joke because it doesn't work like the manual describes!!!

It's a manual.

You need to learn to understand it. this is Physics.

Post a screenshot of your orbit MFD when you believe that you are in a stable orbit.

 

[Urwumpe]

I just tested the DeltaGlider again because I didn't really fly it since the last patch... it is still the same as it was before. It does fly well, though it is no aerobatics plane, it is a flying brick. The Tutorial should work exactly as advertised.

The problem is in your head - you still think that Flight simulators give you any help for a Space Flight Simulator, but in space, all you know from aircraft is wrong. There is no air. There is not even perceived gravity. You are all ways in free fall all the time. And all the time you miss Earth, if you did it right.

An orbit is only then a circle around Earth, if you move every second as far away from Earth by your horizontal velocity (Earth is a sphere, remember), as you fall towards Earth. That is why you need about 7800 m/s for an orbit. And why you need to have this velocity horizontal, which means the velocity indicator has to be on the 0° pitch marker on the HUD.

 

[rocketdued]

yeah thats why space is called a vacum. but here on the earth real or virual if an aircraft has wings in produces lift. it dosn't matter long short skinny fat what ever the deltaglider has a wing. there for it will produce lift. untill reaching the edge of space. but the nose of the vehicle should not drop the way it does.

 

[DaveS]

yeah thats why space is called a vacum. but here on the earth real or virual if an aircraft has wings in produces lift. it dosn't matter long short skinny fat what ever the deltaglider has a wing. there for it will produce lift. untill reaching the edge of space. but the nose of the vehicle should not drop the way it does.

At what altitude does the nose start to drop for you? Maybe you are high enough to require the use of the Reaction Control System (RCS) thrusters? To enable the RCS thrusters on the DG, take on the RCS MODE knob on the 2D panel to ROT.

Or are you magically expecting the DG to fly itself into orbit?

 

[rocketdued]

it drops like a stone at all altitudes for me. if i even think about touching the joystick it drops. i know it's not the installation of this sim cause i have reinstalled it several times and the control of the deltaglider is next to impossible for touch and go's to get used to the thing.

 

[DaveS]

it drops like a stone at all altitudes for me. if i even think about touching the joystick it drops. i know it's not the installation of this sim cause i have reinstalled it several times and the control of the deltaglider is next to impossible for touch and go's to get used to the thing.

Of course you need to move the stick to fly anything! :facepalm: :beathead:

Especially at high altitudes where aerosurfaces are inadequate for vehicle flight control.

 

[Urwumpe]

it drops like a stone at all altitudes for me. if i even think about touching the joystick it drops. i know it's not the installation of this sim cause i have reinstalled it several times and the control of the deltaglider is next to impossible for touch and go's to get used to the thing.

Touch and go is a bad idea with most spacecraft anyway. They are no aircraft.

The problem is only your piloting. You still think that a spacecraft is an aircraft, which is completely wrong.

Let me explain you something more: In an aircraft, the tail ensures that your nose points forward, by producing torques by the airflow around the stabilizers. In space is no air, so nothing will stop your rotations except you firing your attitude control thrusters (Or Reaction Control System, RCS). A Joystick is also a poor choice in space, a keyboard permits much finer control on most spacecraft. You have to be really careful, since nothing stops your rotations except your thrusters again. If you rotate to the left, you need to fire the thrusters to the right to stop it. The faster you rotate, the harder it is to come to a full stop without wasting a lot of fuel, so you rotate slowly in space.

It has nothing to do with Orbiter, Orbiter behaves now really like a real spacecraft should, down to radiation pressure by the sun light and exospheric drag by the thinnest layers of the atmosphere (the atmosphere does not end until at least 800 km during a solar minimum, or 1500 km in a solar maximum). If you spin a spacecraft up, the rotation will be exactly like a real spacecraft would behave (except sloshing...well, you can't have it all).

Also, if your spacecraft drops, your perigee is lower than your spacecraft currently is. It is not automatically bad, as long as the perigee is well above 120 km altitude. If your perigee is below 120 km, your orbit will either decay quickly or you will instantly reenter back to Earth by loosing energy to drag in the lower layers of the atmosphere.

Every orbit has only one perigee, the lowest point of it, and one apogee, the furthest point of it. Both points are ALWAYS about 180° apart. Orbit MFD can display both values either as Apogee radius (ApR) and Perigee radius (PeR) or Apogee altitude (ApA) and Perigee altitude (ApA) by pressing the DST button.

 

[rocketdued]

:rofl: your kidding me right?? :lol:

 

[orb]

it drops like a stone at all altitudes for me.

Did you touch elev. trim setting?

 

[rocketdued]

ok so im a bad pilot. thank you.