Gemini Program

[tgep]

Awe, come on now. Worms can be fun. As far as auto pilots go, I still like being able to manualy launch into orbit. There's something to be said for the "cowboy" way. ( insert cowboy smiley here )

I think it was Kev33 who did the LC19 Pad add on. That's where I launch from.

 

[Rosey]

OK, I like to Cowboy too, but we have to make this so that the Cowboys have fun and the guys who just like to sit on the fence and watch have fun too. Yes there are Launch pads .. but they do not move. I like the lauch pads that the gantry moves away if you push a button

What I was hoping for was a fully automated senerio with a system like AMSO thet you push a few buttons and the starts a senerio. You know how you can land on the moon with AMSO. We could also have a senerio full manual with working switches like NAASP. This would be the best of both worlds. Each update would add another feature or senerio .. one could be full automated and one could be fully manual

AMSO has a fully automated re-entry, NAASP is manual .. like that

I am not smart enough to design something like this myself, but if we had a dedicated team like AMSO and NAASP working on Gemini .. boy would that be really nice

Maybe after that someone could do a X-plane series from the X-1 to the X15 and instead of KSC, it could be at Edwards. I know that the X-15 is at Edwards, but is there any addon for the X-1 and those planes at edwards??? That could a great project too. And have the X-1 do unpowered dropsa and full powered drops and start the senerios from altitude instead of from the runway. Talk about the cowboy way, try flyng the the Mel Apt plane past Mach 3 with out crashing. Put all the instability of that plane into a senrios and see if you can keep from crashing. Maybe we could make a fictional x-15 that really made orbit and you could alunch from Edwards. go into orbit, go around the earth once and land back at Edwards

You know, the space program started with the x-plane program.

One last thing, remember Voyager, the plane that went around the world in the 1980's without landing .. that would be a nice addon as well

There are alot of really nice ideas to play around and I hope I have not asked too much .. I will be very happy if any of these items are done someday

 

[Master of Blades]

I say lets focus on Gemini, It's really the lost child of space, and if we got a dedicated team together, I think the outcome can be yet another of "the great" (ie, really good Addons such as AMSO, NASSP, Shuttle Fleet/SSU, that pirdy much everyone has...

Now I can't do addon developing myself (yet), but I'd love to see this project come to life, perhaps even include some conceptual missions such as the (earlier discussed) lunar Gemini.

I think this might be something worth thinking of.

 

[eveningsky339]

I say lets focus on Gemini, It's really the lost child of space, and if we got a dedicated team together, I think the outcome can be yet another of "the great" (ie, really good Addons such as AMSO, NASSP, Shuttle Fleet/SSU, that pirdy much everyone has...

Now I can't do addon developing myself (yet), but I'd love to see this project come to life, perhaps even include some conceptual missions such as the (earlier discussed) lunar Gemini.

I think this might be something worth thinking of.

Yep, definitely worth thinking about. Justice for Gemini!

 

[thegrogen]

I was thinking about doing a "gemini family" addon. Basically, it would include most of the Gemini concepts that were thrown around, e.g. the Gemini "original series", MOL, Blue Gemini, etc. I really wanted to see a "Big Gemini" addon, that spacecraft looked like it had some potential.

Sadly, I'm not much of a modeller (yet), and while I'm a coder I've never done any Orbiter SDK work, so I haven't really done much besides collect Gemini documentation.

(First post, woots)

 

[estar]

Very true. You must also take into account that the guidance program could be interlinked through the Agena to use it as a booster. All commands were input manualy but it may be possible to hot key those commands so as to make it slightly easier for Orbinaughts to fly.

The Agena interface is current working. However the complete command set is not implemented. I believe you will find that the real Agena interface to be ... primitive compared to Apollo and later programs. The missing function are various timers and status. Of course the display panel on the Agena will need to be implemented. My plan was to use the drawable texture interface of the Orbiter API.

A better 3D virtual cockpit will be complicated but is certainly possible. A scrolling ability will be a must as it is with NASSP5. As for docking, the radar screen will be your main point of referance as the windows are quite small and you won't get good visuals until within roughly 100 meters or so. It'll be IFR 95% of the process for docking.

The problem is field of view. Zoom out and detail lost. Zoom in you can't see everything. What pilots do is develop a scan routines where their main focus is out the window but they periodically scan the instrument. Part of the training was learning what to scan during various mission phases.

My recommendation is implement everything you can in the VC. The part I hate is figuring out where the switch are in 3D space. But there is no technical limitation. But along with the Virtual cockpite develop 2d panels as well. Don't just do what I did in Mercury and develop each panel.

Also develop specific panels that groups all the needed instruments for a mission phase right one the screen.

 

[Urwumpe]

My recommendation is implement everything you can in the VC. The part I hate is figuring out where the switch are in 3D space. But there is no technical limitation. But along with the Virtual cockpite develop 2d panels as well. Don't just do what I did in Mercury and develop each panel.

Also develop specific panels that groups all the needed instruments for a mission phase right one the screen.

I can say, from the SSU project, that making a VC is more work even when you have a better code structure around to take work away as the required data for animations currently can't be grabbed quickly from any tool around - even mesh wizard lacks a tool to make a text file of named points.

But using a VC is more rewarding - in the Shuttle it works pretty well, I am sure, for Gemini a VC would be even better IMHO, as you have a smaller volume to cover. I think 2D panels are nice, but far harder to browse. In a VC, you can even see critical stuff from a different VC position well enough to make decisions.

We also have a system to define mission specific panels for the Shuttle, which was not too hard yet. Changing the panels after a mission for a relaunch will be harder, a problem you will not have.

 

[tgep]

If all the parts are there, an animated pad is not too dificult to make as Vinka's SC3 works well for animated launch pads ........ but a module would be better.
I've not tried to animate a pad yet but it's the same process and commands as a ship so it can't be that diffacult. Write it into a scenario as a landed spacecraft and your set.

An auto-pilot program already exists for Gemini so all you would have to do is run your pad animations and launch.

 

[Capt. Speirs]

Please don't let this die, Gemini project is what got me into space flight as a kid.

 

[Kyle]

Gemini also had a Sextant to dock and rendezvous

 

[Pilot7893]

A great feature for a good Gemini addon would be real ACT sounds from the Gemini program like in AMSO

 

[John_L]

Rosey should lighten up on Rob a bit. Rob has done alot of work on this project as well as others. Sure, there's room for improvement on the Gemini addon, but I don't see Rosey out there contributing to the community either. I personally haven't completed any addons either, so you wont find me here in the forums whining about how bad someone else's project is. Personally, I think the Gemini addon is cool, and well done, not to mention, I've been lucky enough to have met Rob in person, and he's a cool guy too.

 

[Lunar_Lander]

Yes Rob, keep on going! I liked Mercury so much and I would love Gemini to, as well as a "Mercury MK II". I remembered that you wanted to make individual interiors for the different capsules. And of course there are the experiments, like the balloon or the flashing beacon.

@Rosey: Edwards and X-15 as well as the fictional orbital X-15 Delta are all available at OrbitHangar!

(Flew the Walker Altitude Record almost like the real thing, 126 km apogee compared to 134 he did )

 

[Rosey]

Dear Spacenut,

I was not trying to complain about the Gemini addon, please forgive me if I sounded like I was. But I see how great AMSO is over the older Apollo addon programs and the Mercury addon is just about as good as it gets. Gemini was even more important that Apollo becuase Gemini taught us how to do many things that we still use today ... Docking, Rondevous, Spacewalks .. loger duration flights. And Gemini was done at a time when computers did not exist on spacecraft!!! Like people said, they did alot with sextons and sliderulers. I believe Gemini should have an addon just as detailed and as complicated as Apollo is with AMSO. Flight from start to finish, broken down in segments ... a good looking cockpit and spectatular launch a moving launchpad with ice coming of that rocket too ... spacewalks .. especially the Ed White EVA with a Gemini space suit and that gun they used to move around... Manual and autopilot re-entry landing ... an addon to see what would have happened if Wally aborted Gemini 6 could be fun to try. Launching three Gemini's at once and doing a triple rondevous ... manually or automatically

AMSO has had seven updates from 1.12 to the current 1.17 as I can remember .. we need someone for Gemini that dedicated to Gemini.

Yes, I do not the brains or the talent to make these addons myself. I am not computer savey as these great developers are and I AM VERY GREATFUL TO ANYONE WHO DOES ANY ADDON. I like to kid around like saying I landed in Cleveland .. I have a warped sence of humor!

I hope I did not hurt anyone's feelings and if I sound like I think something is wrong, most likely, I did somethnig wrong myself and I am asking for help and any help is great

The 1960's were the golden age of space flight and when Mercury Gemini and Apollo are done, I hope to see unmaned rockets for early satelites like Tellstar, deep space missions like Surveyor and Voyager. I believe some are now available, but this weekend we saw amny updates of older simulations like Art, and Deep Impact made more modern and with better graffics then the prevous versions. Who knows, maybe along with Gemini, we will have every other space flight every made as an addon to orbiter, from Echo 1 to the Mars Landers. And along side a full fleet of aircraft and landing fields to fly from one to another. Orbiter could beat out Microsoft flight simulator as the #1 flight sim for computers .. wouldn't that be something especially if it was for free!!! Move over Bill Gates .. Martin's catching up!!!

 

[John_L]

Ok, well, don't count yourself out so quickly. There's alot of work that's been done to take the actual programming out of creating an addon (see vinka's stuff and CVEL), and 3D modeling isn't all that bad once you dive into it. Orbiter is what got me 3D modeling in the first place using Anim8or, which is a great (and free) program to learn 3D modeling with. Since then I've become an even better modeler using the built-in modeling features in the client. I also self taught myself the Linden Scripting Language, and now run a business where I sell my 3D creations (which are functional as well due to the ability to script them) and have a sucessful business. If it weren't for Second Life, I'd probably have completed a few addons already, but Second Life kinda got in the way. I'm somewhat back now, and hopefully I'll get something, (albeit simple most likely), together so I can contribute here as well. In the end I guess what I'm trying to say is that you seem to be the biggest thing in the way of you becoming a contributor here. You seem convinced that you cannot do it. I'm sure if you put forth some effort, you'd be surprised by how much more simple it is than you might think.

 

[estar]

I know I have not done much work on the add-ons in the past year. Basically I been writing role-playing products for pay and that has eaten up my "hobby" time. It does relate in one respect as it honed my writing skills to a more professional level. I have worked on a book about flying Mercury and Gemini and plan eventually to submit it for publication. The working title is "You can fly a space capsule!"

With that being side, remember folks I placed my projects under open source for a reason. I WANT you, the community, to play with it. Now I am not a master organizer like Tschasm (sp?) and the Project Apollo guys. Just not my style I guess. But feel free to take the models, code, and scenarios and make the add-on that you want.

Especially considering that people love ASMO's Apollo and that is not the direction I am heading. My eventual goal is to have all switches implemented which means out of the box playability will suffer.

The reason Mercury works because it was so automated in the first place. You don't have to touch anything in order to launch, orbit 3 times and come back. But that not true of Gemini so it only going to get more complex. This means that there is need for somebody to make and maintain a ASMO style add on for Mercury and Gemini.

I understand the frustration that comes from working with a half done add-on, but again that the reason the stuff is under an open source license.

When my time frees up I will certainly return to working on Mercury and Gemini.

So thanks for your compliments and I hear your complaints.

Finally I found that my email notification on the Meadville Space Center was set wrong so I wasn't responding to anything on a timely basis. I have fixed this.


-----Posted Added-----

I've been lucky enough to have met Rob in person, and he's a cool guy too.

I will be at the Space Memorabilia Show in October at the Glenn Research Center in Cleveland Ohio showing off Orbiter.

I use a two monitor setup with one monitor slaved to the other. I point the one out into the crowd and setup a Joystick and a chair for people to try orbiter.

I typically use Mercury or Gemini and have the user try to use the joystick to track a beacon.

http://www.collectspace.com/events/grc/

 

[Donamy]

Let me know, if you need the switches modeled.

 

[sputnik]

Well, I told Rob I was going to do some stuff for Gemini, and I still haven't.

So I look forward to the new source codes, because I can make at least a few small additions.

 

[Moonwalker]

Just noticed this thread. I also would love to see a Gemini addon which recreates Gemini like it really was. Please keep it up and make Gemini something like Project Mercury! (I think that Mercury also needs an update especially the panels and adding a VC...)

Talking about 2D instrument panels... independently from this thread and the current Gemini addon I started to draw Gemini instrument panels using original NASA drawings / documents for my own fun for now... although I would prefer a fully working virtual cockpit basically

 

[sputnik]

Those look very nice!

Actually, they could be used to texture a virtual cockpit, as well, I would think.