Falcon 1 Flight 3 Launch Thread

[simonpro]

SpaceX is getting torn a new one in the media. Far worse than even I had expected (And I expected it was going to be bad)

What is REALLY tearing them a new one was the loss of a space burial payload with some particularly famed names from the past onboard....

If payload operators are not already running for the door. I feel they will be soon...

I'm sure that payload operators will not be listening to the PR.

That's what I never understood about SpaceX, they chucked out all this PR when they started...but who was it for? The typical payload operator won't choose an LV because of a glossy brochure or a nice flashy video, they'll choose it because it's a reliable/cheap/well designed system that is suitable for their payload.
SpaceX really shot themselves in the foot there.

 

[GregBurch]

I'm sure that payload operators will not be listening to the PR.

That's what I never understood about SpaceX, they chucked out all this PR when they started...but who was it for? The typical payload operator won't choose an LV because of a glossy brochure or a nice flashy video, they'll choose it because it's a reliable/cheap/well designed system that is suitable for their payload.
SpaceX really shot themselves in the foot there.

The PR was probably for potential investors from outside the launcher business -- Musk's Bay Area dotcom billionaire buddies.

You know, about a year ago or so, there was a total management melt-down at another Musk company, Tesla Motors. A lot of the early design team got the axe when late-stage development and production issues became very problematic. Musk caught hell for firing the people he fired, because they were perceived as the real visionaries behind the Tesla machine. For three or four months, the core Tesla fan base was very anti-Elon over it. But it ended up being the right thing to do in hindsight, because they got the first production run done, and ended up with a better product as a result.

MAYBE it'll turn out that Musk has the guts and smarts to figure out who needs to get the axe this time, too, and the cojones to tough through the management instability and "constituency" rebellion that will follow.

Of course, SpaceX is at least an order of magnitude larger and more complex an organization than Tesla, and their product is similarly more complex and difficult. It could be that the kind of flat, lean organization Musk has advocated for space development is just too flat and too lean to get such a complex job done. It will be heart breaking for me if that proves to be true, but I'll suck it up and admit that it is, if that's how the evidence turns out.

On the other hand, what'll be even worse is if SpaceX fails before a management reorganization can come to fruition due to lack of funding. In that case, the evidence will be ambiguous and we'll be left to wonder whether the flat & lean approach could have worked, but for just a little more cash.

Oh, and Simon, thank you for your admirable restraint -- even hung over

 

[Lunar_Lander]

@tblaxland: In the same Newsletter message released with the PDF file you posted, he said something about another report to be ready in two weeks time, including a color-coded chart of all systems and the priority of their overhaul (or something link that).

But that obviously never was released...

At the German board people still believe that the F9 will be much more successful because of the "intensive testing". Although I also told them that any failure on the F1 will have consequences on the F9...

One guy there even believed that you could compare the Falcon to the four failures of the Japanese Lambda. My reply to that was:

1.) Japan already had experience with their balloon-borne Kappa-Series.
2.) Behind the Lambda-Project was a case with a bunch of Yen in it...
3.) This rocket was solid-fuelled. I don't think you can compare this to a liquid engine.

 

[Andy44]

Well, SpaceX is certainly back to the wall, here. Musk better find a way to rally and quick. And I don't think just one good launch will be enough at this point. If F4 is good and F5 fails, he'll still be set back.

I wish him the best of luck.

 

[thomasantony]

Here is an interview by Wired.com with Musk:

http://www.wired.com/science/space/news/2008/08/musk_qa

He seems pretty optimistic. Or in his words
"Do I sound optimistic? " ... and later "Optimism, pessimism, **** that; we're going to make it happen. As God is my bloody witness, I'm hell-bent on making it work."

Well I hope he does it.

 

[Linguofreak]

At the German board people still believe...

When you say "German board," are you saying that there's a German board for Orbiter, or is it a SpaceX board or something?

 

[Lunar_Lander]

It's this one: www.raumcon.de

They talk there about Spaceflight questions, Manned and Unmanned Spaceflight, Astronomy and Spaceflight in the Media (In this last section they have an Orbiter Thread).

In The Unmanned Spaceflight Section is a thread about the Falcon 1, along with one about Phoenix, which are both highly active at the moment. In the "News" section they have a seperate thread about SpaceX.

 

[thomasantony]

Hawthorne CA –August 4, 2008 - SpaceX, a privately-held space launch services provider, has received a $20 million equity investment from Founders Fund, a leading technology venture capital firm, headquartered in San Francisco.

SpaceX joins Founders Fund's existing portfolio, which includes Facebook, Powerset, Slide and Quantcast. Managing Partner Luke Nosek will join the SpaceX board as part of the financing.

​

“Founders Fund has a track record of investing in companies with the potential to revolutionize industries. We are pleased to be included in their portfolio and welcome Luke Nosek to our Board,” said Elon Musk, CEO and CTO, SpaceX. “Founders Fund shares the SpaceX vision of creating a world-class company that will shape the future through technological innovation.”

​

“We believe SpaceX will become the world leader in space transport and we want our investors to be part of that future,” said Luke Nosek, Managing Partner of Founders Fund. “Having reviewed their technology, outstanding engineering & business talent and the infrastructure they have built, we are highly confident in the future of the company.”

​

SpaceX is developing a family of launch vehicles and spacecraft intended to increase the reliability and reduce the cost of both manned and unmanned space transportation, ultimately by a factor of ten. With its Falcon line of launch vehicles, powered by internally-developed Merlin engines, SpaceX offers light, medium and heavy lift capabilities to deliver spacecraft into any altitude and inclination, from low-Earth to geosynchronous orbit to planetary missions. SpaceX currently has 11 missions on its manifest, plus indefinite delivery/indefinite quantity (IDIQ) contracts with NASA and the US Air Force.

​

As a winner of the NASA Commercial Orbital Transportation Services competition (COTS), SpaceX is in a position to help fill the gap in American spaceflight to the International Space Station (ISS) when the Space Shuttle retires in 2010. Under the existing Agreement, SpaceX will conduct three flights of its Falcon 9 launch vehicle and Dragon spacecraft for NASA, culminating in Dragon berthing with the ISS. NASA also has an option to demonstrate crew services to the ISS using the Falcon 9 / Dragon system. SpaceX is the only COTS contender that has the capability to return pressurized cargo and crew to Earth. The first Falcon 9 will arrive at the SpaceX launch site at Cape Canaveral by the end of 2008, in preparation for its maiden flight.

​

Founded in 2002, the SpaceX team now numbers over 500, located primarily in Hawthorne, California, with four additional locations: SpaceX's Texas Test Facility in McGregor near Waco; offices in Washington DC; and launch facilities at Cape Canaveral, Florida, and the Marshall Islands in the Central Pacific.​

 

[n122vu]

Webcast Distraction

Ok, wasn't going to mention this but it has bothered me for the last three days.

Did anyone else find it extremely distracting during the launch webcast while the gentleman on the left was describing the model of the Falcon 1, the girl kept looking at the model with a big smile on her face and barely kept herself from giggling? :blink: It didn't take a genious to figure out what she was thinking.

Seriously, I thought it was very unprofessional.

 

[spcefrk]

One thing Falcon has up their sleeve is a fairly competent PR group (not that they know how to run a webcast from the technical side...). They're not going to simply sit back and worry about the launch protocols -- they've got a couple of public narrators.

To be honest, I don't know why mainstream news outlets don't air this stuff live. The chances of a bold failure (which equals high ratings) on a NASA mission are almost nil. But the amount of drama they could cook up showing Flight 4 on live TV would be immense...

 

[C3PO]

IMHO loosing a video feed isn't much of a drama.

 

[spcefrk]

IMHO loosing a video feed isn't much of a drama.

No but you know how media outlets can make drama out of what color socks a guy wears. They'd talk about the past launch failures, what went wrong, and then speculate about the lost feed (like we all did) after the "hosts" said there was an anomaly.

 

[simonpro]

SpaceX has good PR?!
They spent the first 2 years talking about how they're going to kick everyone's ass, and how everyone else doesn't know how to do things properly. Then they spent the next eyar not telling anyone anything.:blink:

Still, they don't really need PR. I doubt they care if the general public knows about them or not, so getting on CNN probably isn't that big a deal.

Seriously, I thought it was very unprofessional.

They might've acted unprofessionally because they're not professional presenters, they're both spacex employees in other areas of the company.

 

[Urwumpe]

SpaceX could maybe raise some fund for the next launch by the following method:
Allow people to place bets on the next failure (staging, second stage engine, first stage engine, etc). When all goes right and nothing fails, the bank/SpaceX wins. When something fails, the money gets paid to the people who got it right.

As long as there is a realistic chance of something failing, people might take part...

 

[Notebook]

Well, somebody loves them:-

http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=47

N.

 

[Ghostrider]

They spent the first 2 years talking about how they're going to kick everyone's ass

They do, as long as the aforementioned asses are strapped to one of their rockets!

 

[simonpro]

Well, somebody loves them:-

http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=47

N.

The founders fund (guys who gave SpaceX the money) is owned by some of Elon Musk's old business buddies from Paypal

 

[Notebook]

Bit of luck they came along at just the right time then...

N.

 

[tblaxland]

Bit of luck they came along at just the right time then...

N.

Despite the date on the press release, Musk has stated previously that he accepted this investment prior to Flight 3 to protect the company against a Flight 3 failure.

 

[n122vu]

Despite the date on the press release, Musk has stated previously that he accepted this investment prior to Flight 3 to protect the company against a Flight 3 failure.

Almost as if he knew....


No, no, I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I'm not a conspiracy theorist.....

Seriously, though. Very wise business move on the part of Elon/SpaceX. Shows that the company is mature enought to know that there are going to be failures this early in the game, no matter how well you prepare.