Project Explorer (Babylon 5) Deep Space Vessel

[n122vu]

I contacted Jason Benson, author of the original Explorer addon, and he has given me the green light to release an updated version of the vessel.

After upgrading the original craft to use Spacecraft3, I have been building a custom .dll for the Explorer vessel class.

**UPDATE**
The EAS Cortez is complete and has been uploaded to Orbit-Hangar. I would like to mark this project complete, and if one of the mods would be so kind, please close this thread, as any further bug reports should be documented in the addon thread.

Thanks to all who helped in any way.

Regards,
n122vu

 

[Urwumpe]

I would recommend using the spacecraft3 vessel only as initial reference, but focus on a proper DLL soon... simply because UMMU and UCGO work better then.

I have the Babylon 5 Wars Tabletop Game here, which has a SCS about the Explorer class, like which important subsystems it has, and which weaponry, which qualities the sensors have, what the hangar can store, etc.

Maybe this is interesting for your plans? I could for example hand-copy the fluff text from the "Ships of the fleet, 2nd Edition" here, which describes the Explorer class and its missions.

 

[garyw]

I would love to see a DLL'ed version of the Explorer class but one that can carry XR-2's and DGIV's.

 

[Urwumpe]

I would love to see a DLL'ed version of the Explorer class but one that can carry XR-2's and DGIV's.

Should be possible... the hangar of the Explorer can carry 24 fighters and 6 Shuttles. Maybe not completely canon then, but should fit.

Also it would be nice to have armament of the Explorer...2 Heavy Pulse Cannons, 8 Standard Particle Beams and 8 Interceptor Mk-I. The weapons are arranged similar to the Omega destroyer, thus the SPBs would be in small turrets in two rows on the top and bottom of the hull, the HPCs would be fixed on the front hull, the Interceptors would be in turrets on the sides of the hull...

The luckily the SCS had been on CD in PDF format, so it is no problem to email them to anybody making the DLL.

 

[n122vu]

I would recommend using the spacecraft3 vessel only as initial reference, but focus on a proper DLL soon... simply because UMMU and UCGO work better then.

I have the Babylon 5 Wars Tabletop Game here, which has a SCS about the Explorer class, like which important subsystems it has, and which weaponry, which qualities the sensors have, what the hangar can store, etc.

Maybe this is interesting for your plans? I could for example hand-copy the fluff text from the "Ships of the fleet, 2nd Edition" here, which describes the Explorer class and its missions.

My initial plan is just to get spacecraft3 vessel up and running with as many features as possible. Particularly I would like to see better response from attitude thrusters than what I am seeing in the original in 2010 P1.

I have still yet to make a custom .dll vessel either, so I figured I might have better luck starting with SC3 first for the sake of time.

When I am ready to tackle the custom .dll, I would very much appreciate any and all info or advice anyone would be willing to offer and would definitely be interested in the info from Ships of the Fleet 2nd Edition.

Regards,
n122vu

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I'd figured that a ship that large would turn like a drunk slug anyway... She is a handfull to turn around, but still a very nice ship. Nice and roomy for all that cargo needed for long range survey work.

 

[n122vu]

I'd figured that a ship that large would turn like a drunk slug anyway... She is a handfull to turn around, but still a very nice ship. Nice and roomy for all that cargo needed for long range survey work.

I agree it would probably be sluggish, yes. But what I'm seeing might be classified as almost non-responsive. There's no noticeable turning unless you hit at least 10x time accel...

At any rate, I will be attaching an updated version to a post soon for testing, mainly just updating to sc3 and adding some engine exhaust to begin with. Then I'll start tweaking and adding more things.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

"non-responsive"... Yeah, that about covers it.

This thing along with UMMU and UCGO support would be a wonderful upgrade. I think the only thing that could make it better after that would be a virtual cockpit (or at least a 2d one).

I'm looking forward to what you do with it.

Now if only I had the mad skills to fix the Vespucci-D for Orbiter '10...

 

[Urwumpe]

Now if only I had the mad skills to fix the Vespucci-D for Orbiter '10...

I think the Arrow is a good enough replacement

 

[n122vu]

Ok. Here is the first pass. Only modifications I have made were to update to Spacecraft3 and add engine exhaust. Updated the readme to reflect my changes and credit the original authors. Also thanks go out to ar81 for MeshWizard, which helped me define the offsets for the engine exhaust.

Please feel free to offer any suggestions/features you would like to see available before it's considered ready for re-release.

@PhantomCruiser - UMMU and UCGO are definitely on the list for future plans. Virtual Cockpit is also something I would like to add. All in due time (but the sooner the better, in my opinion, if I can just block out the time to do it.)

 

[Urwumpe]

Please feel free to offer any suggestions/features you would like to see available before it's considered ready for re-release.

Just from testing it here, it looks good.

If you make a DLL for it, I have already one improvement - add a mesh for the hangars insides, that makes them look less empty. The meshes would only be needed to be visible if the camera distance is low enough...optimization. ^^

Also, a jump drive and a temporary jump gate add-on might be great then, to be constructed by the Explorer.

 

[n122vu]

Just from testing it here, it looks good.

If you make a DLL for it, I have already one improvement - add a mesh for the hangars insides, that makes them look less empty. The meshes would only be needed to be visible if the camera distance is low enough...optimization. ^^

Noted. And also noticed the "blandness" myself. On the list.

And I noticed the DG and ShuttleA look tiny in there, which puts into perspective how big this ship really is. (Did you notice they were docked inside? I didn't until I zoomed in on the bay and said, "Hey, what's that little...oh." Didn't even catch it in the scenario file).

Also, a jump drive and a temporary jump gate add-on might be great then, to be constructed by the Explorer.

Also wondered about implementing that myself. Added to the wish list.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Urwumpe]

Also wondered about implementing that myself. Added to the wish list.

same here... I have some coarse ideas how to make a ship transit into hyperspace and back again, but there are some huge regions with the letters "Here might be dragons" over them.

The Explorer is one of the few non-station units with the "Enormous Unit" class on them in the tabletop...for a reason. Fighters could skin dance it. :lol:

 

[n122vu]

The Explorer is one of the few non-station units with the "Enormous Unit" class on them in the tabletop...for a reason. Fighters could skin dance it. :lol:

Well, it is around 6 km long. Which begs the question, how should the attitude thrusters behave on such a craft? Is then the current configuration accurate based on the size of the vessel, or perhaps in the Babylon 5 universe would they have designed the thrusters accordingly that it would be at least a bit more responsive\maneuverable? I mean, I'm not expecting it to move like a fighter, but I would expect it to at least move...

---------- Post added 10-30-10 at 01:13 PM ---------- Previous post was 10-29-10 at 06:45 PM ----------



Regardless, the limitation in handling of attitude thrusters by spacecraft3 is yet more motivation for me to begin working on a DLL version of the ship.

From the spacecraft3 manual:

ATTITUDE_THRUST=7740 : the vessel attitude engine thrust (N), thrust is considered to
be applied by thrusters located at 1 meter from the rotation axis, you should adapt the
engine thrust according to the real radius.

1 meter? From the rotation axis? It's no frakkin' wonder this thing barely rotates. I'll work on adapting the thrust in the ini for now until I get decent performance, then I'll release my SC3 upgrade on OH. After that, I see no alternative but to dive into making a DLL and get it hammered out.

---------------------------------

Ok, I've updated the strength of the attitude thrusters and attached the updated version to my earlier post. I think it's about as good as it can get, but I welcome any feedback. I would recommend setting prograde/retrograde, orbit norm/anti-norm manually prior to engaging the autopilots when needed, as the AP takes to many attitude oscillations to zero in on the correct heading and as a result eats up too much fuel. If I make the thrusters strong enough to compensate, the speed of movement is unrealistic in my opinion. Pending any feedback, this is probably the version I will upload to OH as the first revision to the original.

Regards,
n122vu

 

[Urwumpe]

I can't give you absolute rotation values, since B5W doesn't have a known "duration of a turn". Also a turn is a change in the velocity vector there, while a pure rotation is called pivot.

Since it is an enormous unit, it has no pivot capability and can rotate by 360° at speed one. A Omega destroyer would in the same situation be able to turn 480° - so, the rotation rate would be 33% higher at the Omega. If one turn would be equal to one minute, this would mean the Omega turns at 8°/s while the Explorer still reaches 6°/s

I would say, if the Explorer rotates at 1°/s here, it is already pretty fast.

 

[n122vu]

Thanks for the approximation. Gives me a general idea of how it should behave. I'll make a few more adjustments to the thrusters until I'm satisfied and then I'll be uploading the SC3 version to OH.

In other news, I have begun coding the DLL. First pass goal will be just to get similar but improved behavior compared to the SC3 version. Once I get at least that far, I'll probably focus on UMMU and UCGO support.

 

[jedidia]

allmost no response at 1x time acceleration is about what I'd expect from such a huge vessel, really. Don't forgett that for a ship so long, the torque will make itself felt very well up (or down, depending on the direction you rotate) in the command deck...

 

[n122vu]

allmost no response at 1x time acceleration is about what I'd expect from such a huge vessel, really. Don't forgett that for a ship so long, the torque will make itself felt very well up (or down, depending on the direction you rotate) in the command deck...

Good point. Will keep that into consideration when setting and testing thruster strength. Also want it to rotate with relatively consistent performance around all axes. Currently the SC3 version rotates extremely fast around the Z axis when compared to the X and Y. I realize this will be the case somewhat, since most of the mass is distributed evenly along the Z axis, but I would like to keep the feel relatively close to the way it handles around the other two axes.

 

[jedidia]

With spacecraft 3, there's really not much you can do in that respect, since the position of the RCS thrusters are fixed. I think you'd be better of with starting to code a basic dll on which you can expand later.

Also, I wouldn't expect the rotation around Z to be much faster than around the other axes if the thrusters are in sensible position. After all, you don't have much of a lever.

 

[n122vu]

With spacecraft 3, there's really not much you can do in that respect, since the position of the RCS thrusters are fixed. I think you'd be better of with starting to code a basic dll on which you can expand later.

Also, I wouldn't expect the rotation around Z to be much faster than around the other axes if the thrusters are in sensible position. After all, you don't have much of a lever.

Agreed. So far really the only thing about SC3 I don't like is the fact that all rotation thrusters are at 1m from the rotation point on all axes (which is apparently enough to make the Explorer spin like a bullet from a rifle).

Maybe in the next version, Vinka could include a variable/ini file setting that would allow you to either adjust the distance from center for each axis, symmetrically of course, or be able to adjust thruster strength independently on each axis (again, symmetrically - one value). Just a thought.

Already working on a custom dll now. Actually at the point where I am defining RCS thrusters. Trying to decide on best layout/distance from center to get the most "realistic" performance. Only planning on defining virtual thrusters at this point. I have no plans to make visual exhaust for them.

Hoping to have the basic dll with equivalent features of the current ship released within the next two weeks, as I have a business trip coming up and am not sure how much time I will have in the weeks following.