Cloning Neanderthals in the offing?

[Ghostrider]

Well, some say that the T-Rex didn't hunt

What, did he buy his steak at the local supermarket or only ate tofu dinos?

 

[Izack]

Jeff Goldblum armed with a Spas-12 with incendiary shells.

T-t-th-that's chaos theory.

 

[T.Neo]

Well, some say that the T-Rex didn't hunt so the only thing you would have to do when one runs towards you is throwing away your dead cat and move along...

As Urwumpe pointed out, Jack Horner's pure scavenger hypothesis is largely discredited nowdays. No large land predator relies solely on carrion for food, so it is likely that tyrannosaurs hunted at least occasionally. In addition, fossils of hadrosaur vertebrae have been found with healed tyrannosaur bite marks, indicating that the animal survived to live on after an attack, which is evidence of hunting behaviour.

Current opinion seems to be that tyrannosaurs were cursorial predators, inhabiting a niche vaguely similar to that of modern hyenas.

 

[Blacklight]

The major problem with cloning is that if you're using DNA from something, the new offspring will have the DNA of a living thing that was the age of the thing that contributed the DNA. So it won't live long, unless they use baby DNA.
Dolly the Sheep ended up with an old lamb's body in only a few years after she was born.

 

[Quick_Nick]

The major problem with cloning is that if you're using DNA from something, the new offspring will have the DNA of a living thing that was the age of the thing that contributed the DNA. So it won't live long, unless they use baby DNA.
Dolly the Sheep ended up with an old lamb's body in only a few years after she was born.

Yikes, I hope you're kidding or I must have been born as old as my parents!

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I am not sure if the Neanderthal human is really extinct, or simply adapted to wear suit and tie and became investment banker.

And possibly works for Geico

Honestly, I cant see a really good reason why a project like this should happen. Is there nothing really productive that could be accomplished instead?

 

[Quick_Nick]

And possibly works for Geico

Honestly, I cant see a really good reason why a project like this should happen. Is there nothing really productive that could be accomplished instead?

At least with dinosaurs we could resolve the feathers debate!
(Though being realistic, with useful DNA we would likely figure it out before having to clone)

 

[RGClark]

...
About cloning a neanderthal: It would be interesting, but since there are too many people around believing in a superiority of one homo sapiens sapiens "race" over another we would probably treat something that is much more different like animals. So until we fix this I don't trust the "sapient sapient" humans to be nice to our Neanderthal-buddies and putting them in a zoo isn't the answer either...

And what would happen if they turned out to be smarter than we are?


Bob Clark :shifty:

 

[mojoey]

And what would happen if they turned out to be smarter than we are?


Bob Clark :shifty:

All of our leaders are out of a job.

 

[Donamy]

That could be a good thing.

 

[RGClark]

The ethics, dangers, and implications of cloning have long been explored in science fiction. Here's one from the second version of the science fiction series the Outer Limits:

The Outer Limits: Season 5, Episode 10
The Shroud (30 Apr. 1999)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0667984/ (includes link to full episode)


Bob Clark

 

[Screamer7]

Cloning an animal is one thing, but cloning an human or equivalent..... I don't know if that is such a good thing.

 

[Urwumpe]

Cloning an animal is one thing, but cloning an human or equivalent..... I don't know if that is such a good thing.

Technically, there is very little that separates us from animals. Yes, the fine details seem to be the difference between flying to the moon and using tools to crack nuts.

The better question is: What can we have to gain by doing that? Is it just a novelty, a modern freak show? Or can it have real scientific goals that could improve us?

 

[4throck]

Cant' help to post this:

 

[MattBaker]

And what would happen if they turned out to be smarter than we are?

Unlikely since civilization started 5,000 years and not 55,000 years ago. The most complicated thing a Neanderthal was building might be a bow and an arrow, the most complicated thing we've built was, well, the Shuttle?
And I think there was this study that the Neanderthal had a more ape-like parietal-lobe and cerebellum. If you damage these parts of a sapiens-brain you end up with speaking/social problems and isn't that what makes the modern humans intelligent? That we can talk about the great ideas we have with people we live/work together?

At least I couldn't imagine a Carl Sagan with baby talk, although this sounds interesting.
"Daddy gone to the bright rock, da-di!"

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Unlikely since civilization started 5,000 years and not 55,000 years ago. The most complicated thing a Neanderthal was building might be a bow and an arrow, the most complicated thing we've built was, well, the Shuttle?
And I think there was this study that the Neanderthal had a more ape-like parietal-lobe and cerebellum. If you damage these parts of a sapiens-brain you end up with speaking/social problems and isn't that what makes the modern humans intelligent? That we can talk about the great ideas we have with people we live/work together?

At least I couldn't imagine a Carl Sagan with baby talk, although this sounds interesting.
"Daddy gone to the bright rock, da-di!"

Of course, complexity may not really be the mark of intelligence. In spite of all that complexity, the shuttle still underperformed in safety & cost effectiveness when compared to using a typical disposable launcher. Intelligence is probably related to being able to simplify the complex as well as create it.

 

[RGClark]

Here's the original interview in Der Spiegel:

Interview with George Church: Can Neanderthals Be Brought Back from the Dead?
January 18, 2013 – 07:41 PM
http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/george-church-explains-how-dna-will-be-construction-material-of-the-future-a-877634.html

You can see he doesn't say he intends to perform this cloning. But reading between the lines you can deduce he favors it being performed.

His book mentioned is here:

Regenesis: How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves [Hardcover]
George M. Church (Author), Ed Regis (Author)
http://www.amazon.com/Regenesis-Synthetic-Biology-Reinvent-Ourselves/dp/0465021751/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1358981365&sr=1-1&keywords=george+church

Bob Clark

 

[wehaveaproblem]

Of course, complexity may not really be the mark of intelligence. In spite of all that complexity, the shuttle still underperformed in safety & cost effectiveness when compared to using a typical disposable launcher. Intelligence is probably related to being able to simplify the complex as well as create it.

But remember that the shuttle was capable of flying payloads up AND down, of having good cross-range ability on reentry, was reusable and looked awesome etc. So it's complexity made it capable of many more things than a disposable launcher. So it can't just be judged against the best criteria of a disposable launcher. As an intellectual challenge, it was quite a marvel.

A Neanderthal may be a better hunter gatherer than a more intelligent species, but I doubt he could write even a rubbish sonata if given a piano, or understand maths, or whatever million other things greater intelligence gives you the capability to do.

Point is, I think complexity is a mark of intelligence. Technology can be made more efficient, but that rarely means more simplicity. Iphones are much more efficient than valves and punch cards, and it's use may *seem* easier, but only due to the incredibly complex stuff going on behind its touchscreen.

 

[Ghostrider]

There is still no universally accepted definition of intelligence, and I don't think we're going to have a definitive one for quite some time.

IMHO intelligence can basically be described as the ability to process information in order to formulate solutions. The better your abilities to analyze, the better your plans of action will be. Complexity, especially in older tech, is a mark of intelligence because it used to take very elaborate and innovative solutions in order to perform tasks that are now done by ICs.

We do everything with solid-state electronics now, we have immense processing power available for cheap and plenty of memory: we had to use wheels & cogs once, and that's why complexity in designs could be recognized as marks of intelligence. It took some genius to design that stuff and make any sense of it.

But I wouldn't discount Neanderthals: who knows, they could adapt. They could even surprise us (checks shotgun).

 

[Mister Mxyzptlk]

What happens to the beings that are defective because the cloning process has errors? Do we just euthanize them or do we care for them like we care for the disabled? Why is it men attempt these thing just because they can? The older I get, the less faith I have that men will ever figure it out. They will continue to take the wrong path every single time they have the choice. It is so sad.