Alien conquistadores?

[eveningsky339]

Looks like Steven Hawking isn't a fan of SETI:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8642558.stm

The man has a point.

My problem with SETI is that they search for something as primitive as radio waves. Assuming that we're looking for a species that has mastered interstellar travel, which is more or less the general paradigm, then their spacecraft could run circles around radio waves.

 

[lalbanof]

Raid what?

If the aliens have the material resources and the availability of energy that they must have to come to the Solar System, it means two things.

1-.They have pretty much solved their own energy and material problems.

2-. They can go to other solar systems. To Use and colonize them.

One way or the other they would not bother with Earth and the Solar System, if they already have what they need elsewhere. We do not have unobtainium like the blue natives in Avatar. We would potentially be done for, though, if we were no more a bother to them than mayflies.

Instead of unreliable and potentially rebellious slaves, they would build robots (or engineer a species of animal) that will protect and obey them by design.

Aliens might then be interested in information. Human culture, scientific and technological ideas. Terrestrial life and it's DNA. This does not need an invasion fleet, just probes, and maybe an agent or two on the ground who would do their best to remain anonymous.

But then, they might not want humans becoming interstellar and competing with them in the future, and might consider destroying humanity preemptively, before it becomes sufficiently advanced to be a rival and a danger to them. This might be the greatest risk, unless we are really the proverbial suicidal race of a short SF story I don't remember too well, and they are just waiting for us to kill ourselves.

 

[AirSimming]

If the aliens have the material resources and the availability of energy that they must have to come to the Solar System, it means two things.

1-.They have pretty much solved their own energy and material problems.

2-. They can go to other solar systems. To Use and colonize them.

One way or the other they would not bother with Earth and the Solar System, if they already have what they need elsewhere. We do not have unobtainium like the blue natives in Avatar. We would potentially be done for, though, if we were no more a bother to them than mayflies.

Instead of unreliable and potentially rebellious slaves, they would build robots (or engineer a species of animal) that will protect and obey them by design.

Aliens might then be interested in information. Human culture, scientific and technological ideas. Terrestrial life and it's DNA. This does not need an invasion fleet, just probes, and maybe an agent or two on the ground who would do their best to remain anonymous.

I think that this are some realistical and valid points.

But then, they might not want humans becoming interstellar and competing with them in the future, and might consider destroying humanity preemptively, before it becomes sufficiently advanced to be a rival and a danger to them. This might be the greatest risk, unless we are really the proverbial suicidal race of a short SF story I don't remember too well, and they are just waiting for us to kill ourselves.

Not that they likely have solved their own energy and material problems, but what if they are a species of a different thinking than just to kill to remain the one and only ruler of the universe? What if they are glad that they finally have found another form of life they can communicate with? This likely might be their goal, just like it is our goal. Maybe they want us to learn/help solve some problems. Maybe they even would offer us, some of us, to go with them and visit their home planet/solar system...

 

[T.Neo]

Ok then, so they may be interested in things like coal, oil, carbonates, cellulose, etc., which all are product of organic life.

Complex hydrocarbons can also be produced by stellar radiation, on objects like Titan and cometary bodies.

I'm not sure why they would want cellulose, unless they prize terran pine furnature... :lol:

My problem with SETI is that they search for something as primitive as radio waves. Assuming that we're looking for a species that has mastered interstellar travel, which is more or less the general paradigm, then their spacecraft could run circles around radio waves.

Radio waves aren't "primitive" in that spacecraft could run circles around them. Assuming C is the ultimate inviolable top speed of information, electromagnetic communication will always be faster than spacecraft. Even assuming isn't, you don't have to break it to have interstellar travel, and electromagnetic communication could still be far easier to do on at least a planetary scale.

But radio waves themselves are rather poor for interstellar communication anyway, so there isn't much point in looking for them. I'd suspect powerful focused systems, broadcasting on a wavelength emitted least from the parent star, would be optimal.

This does not need an invasion fleet, just probes, and maybe an agent or two on the ground who would do their best to remain anonymous.

Try to stay anonymous in a group of chimpanzees, or geese, or squid. That's what it would be like for an alien to remain anonymous in human society.

Aliens might then be interested in information. Human culture, scientific and technological ideas. Terrestrial life and it's DNA.

Terrestrial biotechnology might be a motive. Apart from being potential deadly poisons to aliens, chemicals found in Earth life could have medicinal properties etc.

the proverbial suicidal race of a short SF story I don't remember too well

Is a theme in multiple SF stories, AFAIK.

 

[Urwumpe]

Maybe the aliens really come as tourists...and you know how destructive tourism is on Earth.

 

[T.Neo]

Then governments can just make it exceedingly difficult to get a visa. xD

 

[Urwumpe]

Then governments can just make it exceedingly difficult to get a visa. xD

And have taxes on alien spacecraft flying through human airspace.

 

[ex-orbinaut]

And have taxes on alien spacecraft flying through human airspace.

...and space-space.

 

[RisingFury]

Aliens might then be interested in information. Human culture, scientific and technological ideas.

Only as much as we're interested in the science, culture and technology of monkies.

If you're advanced enough to actually fly into the solar system, then you're gonna look at the Hubble Space Telescope and say: "Awwww, isn't that cute!". They'll have kids do quantuum physics like we do our abc's.

 

[eveningsky339]

Well, really, no one can know the motives of an interstellar alien race. They are, after all, alien. Hawking has a point, humans haven't exactly been good examples when it comes to "meeting the natives," but aliens aren't humans.

Perhaps an alien ship has come and visited earth only to take pictures of feet, because pictures of feet are the highest form of art... and then they went home and worshiped our feet. It's absolutely absurd, yet entirely plausible.

Then comes the issue of whether aliens already have visited. I haven't made my mind up one way or the other; so-called cases of "alien abduction" range in credibility from obvious psychosis to disturbingly believable. (The latter category generally includes some sort of "physical evidence" that aliens performed experiments, etc.)

 

[T.Neo]

Only as much as we're interested in the science, culture and technology of monkies.

But there are people who study the technology and culture of monkeys, for example.

Anyway, perhaps our science is quaint and antiquated to them, but our culture and archetecture might not be- after all, the Eiffel tower does not exist elsewhere, and soccer games can be quite fun to watch.

And there's no saying that just because they're generally advanced, they will know everything that we do and more. Certain engineering stratagies, for example, could never have developed in their history, their roles being taken by concepts alien to us.

They'll have kids do quantuum physics like we do our abc's.

Only if their kids are very intelligent and far less bratty...

Then comes the issue of whether aliens already have visited. I haven't made my mind up one way or the other; so-called cases of "alien abduction" range in credibility from obvious psychosis to disturbingly believable. (The latter category generally includes some sort of "physical evidence" that aliens performed experiments, etc.)

I'm highly critical of abduction claims (or any claim of alien visitation) more from a biological point of view than anything else. The aliens are either practically human (Space Brothers) or some variation of a human (greys, reptillians). Their medical procedures don't seem particularly sound, and the notion of them creating human alien hybrids is pretty nonsensical, both from a strategy and biology point of view. Overall, it has the hallmarks more of a psychological and societal phenomenon- a good example is the similarity between abduction experiences and sleep paralysis.

Nevertheless, if there is sound evidence for it...

 

[Sky Captain]

Why many people are afraid of aliens visiting Earth? I for one would welcome our new alien overlords.

 

[Enjo]

Did anybody notice similarities between this thread (Human vs Aliens) and the "Human vs God" one?

 

[eveningsky339]

I'm highly critical of abduction claims (or any claim of alien visitation) more from a biological point of view than anything else. The aliens are either practically human (Space Brothers) or some variation of a human (greys, reptillians). Their medical procedures don't seem particularly sound, and the notion of them creating human alien hybrids is pretty nonsensical, both from a strategy and biology point of view. Overall, it has the hallmarks more of a psychological and societal phenomenon- a good example is the similarity between abduction experiences and sleep paralysis.

Nevertheless, if there is sound evidence for it...

I'm critical of these as well. But there are a few aspects of some cases which warrant a closer look. When an "abductee" disappears for three days and then is found naked next a dumpster in a catatonic state, for example. Or when scars and bodily harm appear after a supposed "abduction." It may very well all be nonsense, but we should not be so quick to dismiss it.

But then again, most abductees tend to be religiously obsessed with the idea of abduction in the first place...

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm critical of these as well. But there are a few aspects of some cases which warrant a closer look. When an "abductee" disappears for three days and then is found naked next a dumpster in a catatonic state, for example. Or when scars and bodily harm appear after a supposed "abduction." It may very well all be nonsense, but we should not be so quick to dismiss it.

There is always a naturalistic answer to such phenomena. Sometimes, the answer is alcohol.

But then again, most abductees tend to be religiously obsessed with the idea of abduction in the first place...

Yes, often saying they have been abducted while also saying that they can't remember it.

 

[T.Neo]

I'm critical of these as well. But there are a few aspects of some cases which warrant a closer look. When an "abductee" disappears for three days and then is found naked next a dumpster in a catatonic state, for example. Or when scars and bodily harm appear after a supposed "abduction." It may very well all be nonsense, but we should not be so quick to dismiss it.

Is there any reputable proof of such disappearances? Maybe the person got into a drunken stupor and stumbled off into the woods for a few days, etc.

I'm sure a lot of those scars might actually have been there beforehand, and were just "dicovered" after the incident. I mean, I'm covered in all sorts of little scars and nicks... cat scratches, old graze injuries, etc. And they're not immediately noticable.

And the "implants" that are mysteriously found within people, with strange properties (like being made of elements such as Iridium that are not found on Earth- which is not true). There isn't any varifiable evidence for them.

But then again, most abductees tend to be religiously obsessed with the idea of abduction in the first place...

Or at least they seem to be people who would seem psychologically likely to report experiencing such events.

EDIT:
Urwumpe beat me.

 

[Ghostrider]

The Truth is out There.

 

[Urwumpe]

The Truth is out There.

The truth is over there.

 

[Ghostrider]

We should take a long, hard look at the evidence.

Which is something Fox Mulder took 9 seasons to do...

 

[Star Voyager]

If she was an alien, let our Earth be overtaken by her ! Nice picture :speakcool:!