A drive to hoax

ryan

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In light of the Apollo 20 hoax thats a hot topic, i'm asking what would drive a person to do this sort of thing.
And yes or no about if we should try to make a hoax that is totally idiotic and see how many people think it's true.
Like the fact that Orbiter-Forum is watched over by the US Government becuase they think we're getting to close to their Apollo 20 secret :facepalm:

Ryan.
 

Quick_Nick

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Dihydrogen monoxide hoax is a pretty nice trick to show how easily people will fall for conspiracies. Go around and do it right and you'll trick a looot of people. A large number will be mildly intrigued, plenty will spread it if they remain unaware, and a few would be willing to sign a petition; I can pretty much guarantee this.
 

Izack

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I think at least a certain percentage of hoaxers are doing it just to annoy other people while having a laugh (for the lulz, if you will.)

Some people are genuinely convinced that they are correct. It is very possible and easy to, in attempting to understand one's environment, to develop a worldview extremely skewed compared to the 'norm' (if there is a norm.) Depending on what a person has been exposed to, and the way it is perceived in accordance with the worldview, it can lead to some very interesting explanations for events beyond one's understanding.

That didn't come out quite right, and I can't quite explain what I'm trying to say, but it's at the core simply a misunderstanding, and a basic failing of sapience.

One giant label of IMHO should be applied to that, naturally.

Now, as to developing a hilarious hoax of our own, yes, go ahead. It's surprisingly fun to throw rationality and Ockham's Razor and everything else out the door every once in a while.

Let the WMG ensue, I guess. :)
 

Quick_Nick

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In my opinion, Bart Sibrel just wants money and probably knows pretty well what he is doing...
But, some people are just stubborn. People don't seem to realize that others are as sure of themselves as the first person is. (i.e. Don't try to make me join your religion because you're sure it's right; the other guys are just as certain about theirs...)
 

Kevon Daye

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Heck, we should just have a space related hoax contest. All participants write their own (moderately believable) space related hoax story. Then the forum takes a vote as to which two are the best. At that point, the hoaxers are split up into two teams, each one using orbiter to create a believable hoax. Then the footage is posted to youtube, and whichever one gets the most likes/views/comments whatever, wins.
 

ryan

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Heck, we should just have a space related hoax contest. All participants write their own (moderately believable) space related hoax story. Then the forum takes a vote as to which two are the best. At that point, the hoaxers are split up into two teams, each one using orbiter to create a believable hoax. Then the footage is posted to youtube, and whichever one gets the most likes/views/comments whatever, wins.

That's freakishly alike what i was thinking :tiphat:
Points are given for extra stupidity. :lol:
 

Kevon Daye

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I've already got a kind of pre-idea going. This was just off the top of my head:

Mir was never actually de-orbited, instead it now serves as a kind of orbital customs office for incoming extraterrestrials.
 

Artlav

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What drive people into believing in hoaxes?
What about lazyness to think things through, for example?

I once believed in moon landing faked hoax.
The reason? My brother argumented it to me - "the americans were always behind the soviet in space technology, the soviets never made it to the Moon, therefore americans couldn't make it to the Moon either, thus they've faked it". Add to that an occasional show on discovery channel i think, and the thing is done.

But the idea rapidly crumbled as i found Orbiter, and actually got to think about how much of these hoax arguments make sense. Some research later the whole thing sounded plain stupid.

I guess many people just don't bother to check the facts they're getting.
So, before making any hoax (what about cleaning up that Nigerian astronaut one?), think of the children.
 

jedidia

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I think we have to keep two things seperate concerning hoaxes. For one, there are those where their proponents are simply convinced of something, and are trying to convince others, at the same time developing an ignorance to any counter-evidence because the particular believe grows more and more to be a part of that persons identity. I'd like to name that the "mythological hoax", I'll explain later why.

The other kind is people conciously making up stuff, because they realise that people currently are very receptive to that kind of things, and they might be after prestige, a fast buck, the same things frauds and impostors have been after during all of history. I wouldn't even call that a hoax, I'd simply call it what it is: fraud, which, if it leads to material gain of the one responsible, is a criminal offense. The Apollo 20 hoax clearly falls into this cathegory, since you can't possibly believe in it if you're faking your evidence on your computer. I'd file the original moonlanding hoax under the first cathegory.

There *might* be a weird combination of the two, a case where someone is totally convinced of something despite there being any evidence whatsoever, and forges some evidence to gain support to "get to the bottom of it", in a "the ends justify the means"-line of thinking, but I'd say they are pretty rare, since it takes a person with a heavy double morality and absolute conviction to pull it off. Such a combination should be rare to find in a more or less sane person.

Now, why did I call the first sort "Mythological Hoax"? Because I believe that's exactly what it is. The twentieth century robbed the western society of pretty much all mythology there remained from the times of old. First by scientific progress, then by deconstructivism we banned them all to the realm of fairy tales or high literature.
I think the rabid spread of all kinds of conspiracy theories during the last two decades is a compensation for the loss of mythology. Most people need to believe in something different from aparent reality, it seems (and I, having a very strong conviction in my faith, am by no means an exception). While there was plenty of opportunity to find this in the physical realm in earlier centuries, People are now turning to the next best thing they can't comprehend: The confusing, enigmatic world of politics (sometimes combined with the equally enigmatic world of high finances). Surely, there got to be some dragons left in that inpenetrable mess!

In general, myths are located where the power is. A myth isn't of much use if it doesn't affect your life in any way, like, say, that all ballpens you never found again made their way off-world in search for their mysterious home planet (yes, I'm ripping off Douglas Addams...). A myth has to have power, be that in the realm of Gods, the spirits around us, or the politicians governing us.

Think of it this way: Conspiracy theories about global conspiracies, world governement and whatnot are gravely overestimating the power of politics and politicans. No men can control the world, and certainly not history, all too volatile is the substance we are dealing with. Yet, with most people in the west having lost their faith in a god that can make the world right, they have to get their hope for a better world from somewhere else. They take it from politics. Of course, the world and politics are a mess right now, so they have to be evil. None the less, they have to have the power to claim responsibility for it, to controll the whole process behind the curtains. Because if they don't have that power, there's also no hope for someone having the power to do the same in a good way. I hereby suggest that what we see with mythological conspiracies and hoaxes is an emerging 21. century western eschatology.
 

Pyromaniac605

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I reckon we should all team up and try to make a massive hoax, maybe one about another planet that has been discovered that they aren't telling anyone about. (Maybe there are aliens there :lol:)

Darren
 

jinglesassy

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How about a top-secret joint mission between the military and nasa. To find out what caused a powerful electro magnetic burst to take out space shuttle challenger and they found extra terrestrials on venus from the joint mission. The spacecraft coordinates a secret invasion of venus in order to wipe out the species as they threatened our safety. But we missed a few and they are planning a counter attack in 2014.
 

Wishbone

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You know, folks, any stuff you make up is undoing the probably insignificant and inconsequential process called "education" I'm kind of involved in... Not that my students are stupid enough (I hope) to believe most of the hoaxes, it is just the very atmosphere of fake science, sensationalism and mental laziness that drains the talent pool...
 

Urwumpe

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Let me suggest another hypothesis: It is a classic form of entertainment. I learned to appreciate the concept by a friend, who was busy in the shipbuilding industry and had a great talent in creating stories with exactly those tiny bits of exaggeration, that makes you go "What the f...un" and "You must be joking" at the same time. Of course, the stories evolved overtime in more and more absurd realms, but the pace at which he exaggerated, kept the suspense of disbelief well enough up, to become some sort of critical counterpart to his story. By doubting it, questioning details or mentioning own other experiences, the stories got something bigger and better, as if he would just have written them into a book. My grandpa was similar in some stories told during my childhood, though you quickly got the "Captain Bluebear"* experience, that his stories are actually really true.

Maybe that kind of telling yarns is the true essence of hoaxes or the better conspiracies. How much fun would be Von Däniken without a clever and entertaining counterpart, that doubts his ancient alien claims? Maybe that is also what many modern internet conspiracies do wrong. They are made by egoists. People who maybe have many friends, but no feeling for cooperation. And who have not understood the concept of proper yarns. They blow the roof already in the beginning to provoke attention, and thus have not a single bit of suspension of disbelief. On the other hand, take Michael Moore as counter-example: He really lures you into his rhetoric traps, even if only half of his claims are really true, he manages to make them appear more true than they are. And thus entertaining.

* https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/The_13_1/2_Lives_of_Captain_Bluebear
 

jedidia

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Let me suggest another hypothesis: It is a classic form of entertainment.

I have doubts about that. certainly, a lot of people might find it entertaining. The problem is, the originators of the theories and their followers seem to be much too serious about the buisness. Of course, an expert prankster can mime seriousness to look more credible, even when he's almost bursting of laughter, but at some point he will end the prank or he's missing the real fun: the embarassement of the one who fell for it. Which is what differs a prankster from a fraud: both do more or less the same, but the prankster is only after entertainment, while the fraud is after material gain.

Looking at the moon hoaxers, the 9/11 truthers aso, I really think that whoever originated the prank should call it off by now, or I name him the most irresponsible prankster ever (if people start to eat each other over the issue, it's certainly not my Idea of fun anymore, although it might be of some very strange person... It would be more concerning than someone that is just selfrightous and ignorant. The joker comes to mind...)

you quickly got the "Captain Bluebear"* experience

best book ever. Michael Ende beaten at his own game (I really love Ende, but I have to admitt that Moers trumped him in terms of imagination with that one!)
 
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Wishbone

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There is another sort of environment where hoaxes/practical jokes are institutionalised: the armed services. The victims pass through these as part of initiation rites/hazing/"IQ testing". However, this doesn't spill out into the general public...
 

Rtyh-12

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An absolutely stupid, idiotic, dumb hoax would be an excellent idea! Something like a secret spaceship built by the military that reaches Alpha Centauri and somehow annoys a race of aliens already living that and now they want to kill us. What do you think?:rofl:
 

HAL9001

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I don't now what drives people to hoax Apollo 20.
But I think it would be a nice idea, to make our own, really silly hoax and look, how many people believeit. But it should be so silly, that nobody can complain, because everyone who believes it is own fault. (I don't no wheter this was good English, I didn't now how to say "selber schuld" in English, so I used Google-translator)
 

Urwumpe

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There is another sort of environment where hoaxes/practical jokes are institutionalised: the armed services. The victims pass through these as part of initiation rites/hazing/"IQ testing". However, this doesn't spill out into the general public...

Yeah...I know... :facepalm:Luckily, they didn't do the "batallion map printing room" ("Battalions-Kartendruckraum", abbreviated BtKdr) joke on me. This happened only once and ended in very quickly running officers. Was about sending a poor recruit to the map printing room with the order to get some maps for the next exercise, there is an elder man inside, who is sometimes a bit stubborn and slow, so you should not get discouraged, just make some noise if he doesn't get you the maps printed ASAP... in case you still wonder what the problem is... BtKdr is the german army abbreviation for the battalion commander. An elder huge man with many stars on his shoulder and the ability to darken the sky.

I was sure better off with the key to the availability space... at least I managed to return with a key.

Also there was lately a nice story about a stewardess, who was called by the captain on her first flight after landing to bring some bottles of water and pour it over the aircrafts nose, because it got a bit too hot during reentry.

jedidia: That is what I meant - the internet hoax and conspiracy spinners lost their roots in the old tradition of yarns.
 

Kevon Daye

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Yeah...I know... :facepalm:Luckily, they didn't do the "batallion map printing room" ("Battalions-Kartendruckraum", abbreviated BtKdr) joke on me. This happened only once and ended in very quickly running officers. Was about sending a poor recruit to the map printing room with the order to get some maps for the next exercise, there is an elder man inside, who is sometimes a bit stubborn and slow, so you should not get discouraged, just make some noise if he doesn't get you the maps printed ASAP... in case you still wonder what the problem is... BtKdr is the german army abbreviation for the battalion commander. An elder huge man with many stars on his shoulder and the ability to darken the sky.

I was sure better off with the key to the availability space... at least I managed to return with a key.

[/QUOTE/]

Sounds a lot like the "go get me some rotor wash/grid squares/prick E-5" joke. I knew this one poor kid, he got told to get some rotor wash, got all the way up to the Sergeant Major before someone clued him in.
 

Urwumpe

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Sounds a lot like the "go get me some rotor wash/grid squares/prick E-5" joke. I knew this one poor kid, he got told to get some rotor wash, got all the way up to the Sergeant Major before someone clued him in.

A classic of all workshops is "Getting some click plates for the torque wrenches".
 
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