McCain or Obama?

[Missioncmdr]

ORLY?

:yarly!:

Sorry. Could not resist. Continue discussion.

 

[Urwumpe]

Most people in america are employed by companies that make over $250,000 per year. If Obama is elected then he will tax the snot out of those companies. If the companies have a lot less money to spend then they will have less money to hire employs, and they will start to let go of some unnessecary positions. If they let go of employs and stop hiring as many then more people will be jobless.

Do you think McCain will do that different? He has no choice, the economy will decide this for him. When times get bad, the unimportant workers go first. When times get good, the unimportant factories go into foreign countries.

I had seen a tax calculator somewhere, which calculated the changes proposed by Obama and McCain, can you please find it again and calculate the difference between both for a company earning 500,000 USD per year?

I also do not agree woth the whole concept of spreading the wealth, taking money from people who have worked hard to earn it and giving it to others is just not fair, I do not want to recieve money that I didn't earn, I would like to be treated exactly the same as everyone else.

Yes, so you want to support Obama in reality. If you want to be treated exactly the same as everyone else, you support the idea that you should have the same taxation as everybody in the USA. Just look at this calculation:

In 2001 the top 1% earned 14.8% of all income and paid 22.7% of all federal taxes. The next 4% earned 12.7% and paid 15.8%. The next 5% earned 10.1% and paid 11.5%. The next 10% earned 14.8% and paid 15.3%, completing the highest quintile. The fourth quintile earned 20.7% of all income and paid 18.5%. The third quintile earned 14.2% and paid 10%. The second quintile earned 9.2% and paid 4.9%. The lowest quintile earned 4.2% and paid 1% of all federal taxes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_taxes#cite_note-22 Whether this breakdown is "fair" is a matter of some debate.

This was before the three tax cuts imposed by Bush (took place in 2001, 2003 and 2004), which reduced the progressivity (But I can't find newer tax statistics). The top 1% are people who earned more than 360,000 USD, the top 5% would be roughly at 200,000 USD.

 

[Missioncmdr]

Hate to break into the conversation here again, but I just had to share this. I doubt many people saw this, but there was an excellent debate between Chuck Baldwin, Bob Barr, and Ralph Nader on Thursday. It really helps showing the major differences between the major and minor candidates this election.

(It is about one hour long.)

 

[joeybigO]

@ Andy 44

YA RLY...

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues/7366faf9-d504-4abc-a889-9c08d601d8ee.htm

Does this require an Obama stance on NASA???

Don't make me go there...

 

[GregBurch]

It probably won't b e necessary, but you might want to look at this, just in case:

[ame="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f2_1225415890"]LiveLeak.com - C'mon, Move to Canada![/ame]

 

[Eagle]

It probably won't b e necessary, but you might want to look at this, just in case:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f2_1225415890

'Not as cold as you think!'*
*may actually be as cold or colder than you think

Love it. Thanks for the laugh.:lol:

 

[Missioncmdr]

It probably won't b e necessary, but you might want to look at this, just in case:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1f2_1225415890

Yeah! Why live under a conservative in the White House when you can go to Canada and live under a conservative in House of Commons? :lol:

If I had a nickel for every time I heard some say, "If xxxx gets elected, I'm moving to Canada!", I would be able to move to Canada!:rofl:

I love irrelevant conversation.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Anybody that says that they'll move to Canada just because they have issue with the president-elect should have their citizenship revoked and be sent to North Korea.

I'm not a fan of Bush, and I certainly am not happy he managed 2 terms, but people who think the situation is so dire that they must jump ship, well, they don't get democracy. They also don't realize that having someone of the opposing party in office is not the end of the world. Even if they win, if they do something egregiously stupid, they lose the next election and bring their party down with them. If they don't do something egregiously stupid, then they didn't manage to do enough damage, likely because Congress was able to check their progress. Bush may have won a second term, but he lost his ability to push things through Congress without a fight.

I am for Obama this election, but I am concerned that the Democrats will also get a lot of seats in Congress. It is a very good thing when the President has to sell his policies to Congress and the people. It was bad to have so much Republican influence in Congress during Bush's first term, and it would be equally bad for the Dems to have a free run, too.

 

[Urwumpe]

There you see the difference between Democrat, Republican and Alaskan Independence Party:

Democrat: If we loose, I'll move to Canada... Oh Canada...
Republican: If we loose, I'll grab my gun and make use of my constitutional rights to defend the constitution!
Alaskan Independence party: If we loose, I'll go hunting.

 

[Andy44]

@ Andy 44

YA RLY...

http://www.johnmccain.com/informing/issues/7366faf9-d504-4abc-a889-9c08d601d8ee.htm

Does this require an Obama stance on NASA???

Don't make me go there...

You quote his campaign website and expect me to believe that? Please. Campaign promises are a dime a dozen. McCain can promise to turn the sky from blue to green but that doesn't mean he is serious about it. And if the economy continues to sink, Constellation will face serious cost-cutting, no matter who's president.

I stand by my call: NASA will probably get LEO capability but the lunar mission stuff is likely to get canned. I also forecast cost overruns associated with the foolish Ares I booster, which will only hurt the rest of the project.

 

[joeybigO]

You quote his campaign website and expect me to believe that? Please. Campaign promises are a dime a dozen. McCain can promise to turn the sky from blue to green but that doesn't mean he is serious about it. And if the economy continues to sink, Constellation will face serious cost-cutting, no matter who's president.

I stand by my call: NASA will probably get LEO capability but the lunar mission stuff is likely to get canned. I also forecast cost overruns associated with the foolish Ares I booster, which will only hurt the rest of the project.

I have to agree to disagree...

http://embeds.blogs.foxnews.com/2008/08/02/fighting-over-the-final-frontier/

That says most of it, however Biden promised more spending to close the gap to shuttle retirement. However, NASA and the US will loose the space race once again, due to a "president" that won't get us back to the moon...

I have to agree that we will spend most of our time in LEO, in fact we just not might do anything after shuttle retires, not even constellation, not even shuttle.
Needless to say the next four years under Obama will be interesting for NASA and the US.

That Canadian Flag on the moon is starting to look good now...

*edit*
No, Obama want's to widen the gap 5 years to pay for an 18 billion dollar education program...

So that they study before we get to the moon really goodly...

 

[Urwumpe]

Kennedy was no republican, and I doubt anybody heard him talk good about spaceflight in his election campaign.

The president won't get you to the moon. Engineer and managers will. If these people don't believe in going to the moon, nobody will be able to do it. The president could be as visionary, if he can't inspire these people, these people will do everything but going to the moon. (Take Bush as example. He had a vision for space exploration, but he was not really inspiring NASA to do their best)

And honestly: Obama seems to have better skills in inspiring people, than McPalin.

 

[originalpckelly]

The reason you MUST vote Obama: Palin so stupid she takes prank call

Just when you thought you'd heard it all, that idiot ups the ante with the idiocy. She makes George Bush look like a genius!

Here's the call:
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbEwKcs-7Hc"]YouTube - Sarah Palin Got Pranked[/ame]

 

[joeybigO]

yeah much better than Obama bin Biden...

 

[Andy44]

Kennedy was not "pro-space" either, to think he was is a myth. He couldn't care less about space until he found out it was a good PR and propaganda stunt. Apollo was at once both a flag-waving nationalist program, which made the republicans happy that they would get to wave the flag on the moon, and yet another expansion of the federal government and a government jobs program, which made the democrats happy, especially the anticommunist democrats of the early 1960s.

Too many people in Orbiter World idolize Kennedy, NASA, and the Apollo years. Get real and understand the context, and you may start to understand why NASA has never, and will never, bring back the glory days of the 1960s.

 

[Missioncmdr]

Kennedy was not "pro-space" either, to think he was is a myth. He couldn't care less about space until he found out it was a good PR and propaganda stunt. Apollo was at once both a flag-waving nationalist program, which made the republicans happy that they would get to wave the flag on the moon, and yet another expansion of the federal government and a government jobs program, which made the democrats happy, especially the anticommunist democrats of the early 1960s.

Too many people in Orbiter World idolize Kennedy, NASA, and the Apollo years. Get real and understand the context, and you may start to understand why NASA has never, and will never, bring back the glory days of the 1960s.

Which is the same reason why I believe the fact that we even have a manned space program today is nothing short of a miracle. Hell, the fact that NASA even got enough funding for more than one Lunar landing is a miracle.

 

[Urwumpe]

Which is the same reason why I believe the fact that we even have a manned space program today is nothing short of a miracle. Hell, the fact that NASA even got enough funding for more than one Lunar landing is a miracle.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Terry Pratchett also delivered a deduction from that:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

 

[Missioncmdr]

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.

Terry Pratchett also delivered a deduction from that:

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.

NASA's yearly budget can hardly be compared to technology. I am not sure what you are getting at.

 

[Urwumpe]

NASA's yearly budget can hardly be compared to technology. I am not sure what you are getting at.

q.e.d.

 

[Omhra]

David wrote and I interject;
"he was presented with testimonial -[sexy narration] and documentary evidence -[stained dress... stains of...] that the U.S. President was planning to commit perjury -[deny "Sex" by some definition] in a federal trial, and in cooperation with another witness -[ooo, is good...], whom he had encouraged to commit perjury, also [No! Really?].
What do you propose that such a federal governmental investigator should have done about that? [Could have used more florid language...? Pictures perhaps, a reenactment of some sort]
What he did do, was to investigate it and report the facts that he found -[Yeah That was the point and the main story, we know]
For which action -[and millions of dollars and 1000's of embarrassing morbid questions; Like” were her lips in contact with your …”] , he was viciously villified [Dear, dear], this being an act of political propaganda -[propaganda does as propaganda sees... Do you pretend to say that there was no propaganda from the right in that issue? ] seeking to defend the political interests of Mr. Clinton and his political Party -[speculative, but sounds good. When it comes to the public... we thought that it was morbid... and we favored knob-polishing in such stressful job. As if other world leaders and common folk alike don't indulge in such activities... the hypocrisy of the inquiry is appalling and your point is to prove that such inquiry could be called on over any petty thing like "no, I had waffles for breakfast but not with her"... Sir; he had indeed eggs with her... and proceed to investigate until the government has to shutdown over such issues.
You have to be joking...][Continues]

Starr's dutiful investigation and report -[some devotion sir], were for that purpose characterized, publicly, as a morbid –[because it was] and prurient interest --[because it also was that. It is too bad for Starr that the party selected him for the inquiry... but that is how the Neo Cons operate. They send an expendable person to do the dangerous work and let them fall alone.], and such, in Clinton's "private life -[again because they thought their “EROTIC ENCOUNTERS” WERE PRIVATE]," rather than as being in accordance with his professional assignment to investigate -[ask juicy questions] and provide a report -[basically literary pornography] about the evidently -[incredibly petty yet] illegal behavior by President Clinton."

Your last two paragraphs are the standard closing ”a la Yale” from the right Neo Cons... Whom I, a republican, do not consider Reps. Thus I imagine you consider me on the left. I consider my self a centrist. And extremely so , therefore I wont comment on those.
Instead I will say again that the lesson learned in that embarrassing chapter of Americana is that; a political party will do amazing things to damage a person of their own fold in order to damage groups of the other. Spare no expense.
But the truth is that the Neo Cons never got over that episode since they got to impeach Clinton but could not remove him and because a note of extremism had been played forever tainting them… Forward the clock to Bush Jr. campaign “we will restore honor to the white house” hmm I wonder what they were drawing on to use that slogan. Yeah. SEX.
So , David;
--Legal maneuvers mean nothing in the face of truth.
Bush has been denounced by former CIA chiefs former FBI chiefs his “Retired” Generals” even Powell who only stands to gain a level of redemption, via endorsing Obama, and just by his own speeches.
He lied about an issue that has put the nation at risk in the face of a changing world.
There are levels of lies, but is because Bush is protected by "the" War and the supposed “de facto” secrecies surrounding war that he has not been indicted… Where is the inquiry on Bush?
Oh yeah it came out around May or June “pre-war assessment of intelligence…” and it concluded he “the administration” manufactured and misrepresented facts [LIED, just call it what it is] to congress… so not in court but similar. But there is no perjury because they agreed to talk about these issues only while they were not under oath.
Why I wonder… why, why, why?

Thunder chicken Wrote
“It was bad to have so much Republican influence in Congress during Bush's first term, and it would be equally bad for the Dems to have a free run, too.”

You are correct. Prudence and moderation coupled with cold assessment of the situation is what Obama must lead through. Also remember that once he is elected ha is not just bound to act independently or severed from communication with those he presides. I imagine he asks for inspiration, he seems to really have exited hope, and this is because in the real world there is a dismal felling that things are spiraling into chaos…the public discourse is what has do be accepted. Agreeing to disagree and learning to see when one is wrong and loosing our felling of embarrassment for having been wrong.
Like the Dems always trying to hinder the constitution by attacking the second amendment, for example…

Originalpckellie
Golden.