Humor Random Comments Thread

[TheShuttleExperience]

With a cranes hook, attached to the submarines by a ROV?

Sounds easy. But is it really?

 

[Urwumpe]

Sounds easy. But is it really?

Doing it? Yeah. The deepest oil drilling well head is in the same depth, with ROVs maintaining it.

Doing it in 14 hours? Not so sure.

The Polar Prince is already heading home now, including the platform for recovering the vessel the usual way I suppose. But three other ships are on location.

 

[jedidia]

On a completely random note, and therefore weirdly on-topic, is there a special term for electronics in a spacecraft? You know, like avionics is a special term for electronics in a plane?

 

[Urwumpe]

On a completely random note, and therefore weirdly on-topic, is there a special term for electronics in a spacecraft? You know, like avionics is a special term for electronics in a plane?

Surprisingly not, that I am aware of. Actually avionics is used there too in some literature.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

With a cranes hook, attached to the submarines by a ROV?

If the Titan is still on the bottom now something went seriously wrong. There are reportedly several different ways for them to jettison ballast to return to the surface, including a timed automatic release by dissolving an adhesive bond, releasing weight, and one where they can physically shift the center of gravity of the sub to dump ballast. Both of these methods do not require any electrical power. If they are still on the bottom either all of these methods failed, or they are fouled on something preventing them from rising, or they are flooded and sunk. The pressure vessel may have imploded, but that would be a pretty detectable acoustic event. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they took in water through slower leaks and sank.

If they are on the bottom now they will likely be easier to find, but likely will be dead. I very much hope that they are bobbing around on the surface somewhere, but that means that they can move with the wind and waves, making finding them on the surface challenging. How far they traveled would be hard to predict without knowing exactly when they surfaced. They need to do both surface and bottom searches until they find them.

 

[Urwumpe]

If the Titan is still on the bottom now something went seriously wrong. There are reportedly several different ways for them to jettison ballast to return to the surface, including a timed automatic release by dissolving an adhesive bond, releasing weight, and one where they can physically shift the center of gravity of the sub to dump ballast. Both of these methods do not require any electrical power. If they are still on the bottom either all of these methods failed, or they are fouled on something preventing them from rising, or they are flooded and sunk. The pressure vessel may have imploded, but that would be a pretty detectable acoustic event. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they took in water through slower leaks and sank.

If they are on the bottom now they will likely be easier to find, but likely will be dead. I very much hope that they are bobbing around on the surface somewhere, but that means that they can move with the wind and waves, making finding them on the surface challenging. How far they traveled would be hard to predict without knowing exactly when they surfaced. They need to do both surface and bottom searches until they find them.

I still assume that the systems didn't work as expected. The easier fate. Then the ROV could trigger them or the submarine is lifted as whole.

If they got pushed into the wreck by a current or the many lines hanging on it got entangled, there could be MAYBE some ways to move the debris by the ROV. but its much harder.

But: What if they worked and the capsule is on the surface? Can the P-3 find it, halfway submerged?

The region has lots of shipping and also lots of things washed into the ocean. Including full 40 ft containers.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

On a completely random note, and therefore weirdly on-topic, is there a special term for electronics in a spacecraft? You know, like avionics is a special term for electronics in a plane?

Avionics is a portmanteau of aviation and electronics. What would be the space equivalent to 'aviation'?

I suppose a similar question could be asked about marine electronics.

 

[Urwumpe]

I suppose a similar question could be asked about marine electronics.

"Brevis circuitus maximus"

(But I think, maori is better suited for spacecraft electronics: hikohiko waka ātea)

 

[Thunder Chicken]

But: What if they worked and the capsule is on the surface? Can the P-3 find it, halfway submerged?

This is what the sub would look like at the surface on a rather calm sea, if you were looking directly at it through a lens:

If there are any white caps or swells and the enormity of the search field, getting eyeballs on it would be very difficult. With it's titanium and composite construction finding it by magnetic anomaly detection probably isn't super easy, and it may be that no one knows whether MAD could find it. I don't know if surface radar could pick a return off the mast in any sea. Sonar would have a similar problem trying to pick it out of surface clutter.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

"Brevis circuitus maximus"

Tommy Magliozzi would call it a "short circus"

Marine version of aviation = marination?

 

[Linguofreak]

Marine version of aviation = marination?

Traditionally "navigation", though that tends to mean "determining your position and charting a course, regardless of mode of travel" these days.

 

[MaxBuzz]

Of course, military applications first.

no, by the way, the carrier of the apparatus must save the emergency landing spacecraft Soyuz

it would be great to dive to the bottom in an orbiter

 

[Urwumpe]

no, by the way, the carrier of the apparatus must save the emergency landing spacecraft Soyuz

it would be great to dive to the bottom in an orbiter
View attachment 33655

Better make another simulation engine for that. You can't simulate it all equally good with one engine. And tell me when it is ready,

Actually, I would really like to have a simulation of the offshore drilling business. What they do there is not less complex as spaceflight, just pretty much more dirty and without livestreams.

 

[Linguofreak]

If they are still on the bottom either all of these methods failed, or they are fouled on something preventing them from rising, or they are flooded and sunk. The pressure vessel may have imploded, but that would be a pretty detectable acoustic event. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they took in water through slower leaks and sank.

If they are on the bottom now they will likely be easier to find, but likely will be dead.

It's not quite that grim. I'm quite pessimistic about location and recovery in the time available, but they've been banging on the hull every 30 min, so they're known to be currently alive or only very recently dead.

 

[jedidia]

Avionics is a portmanteau of aviation and electronics. What would be the space equivalent to 'aviation'?

Hmmm... Aviation is derived from Avis, latin for bird. There's no animals in space, but there's... stars. Latin stella. Stellatronics? Not a great portmonteau, sounds too cheesy. But we could evade to greek, and call it... Astronics, I guess? That actually has a nice and somewhat logical ring to it, considering SF has long since referred to "navigation in space" as "astrogation"...

 

[Urwumpe]

This is what the sub would look like at the surface on a rather calm sea, if you were looking directly at it through a lens:

If there are any white caps or swells and the enormity of the search field, getting eyeballs on it would be very difficult. With it's titanium and composite construction finding it by magnetic anomaly detection probably isn't super easy, and it may be that no one knows whether MAD could find it. I don't know if surface radar could pick a return off the mast in any sea. Sonar would have a similar problem trying to pick it out of surface clutter.

Sounds BAD.

Why didn't they paint at least parts of it orange?

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Better make another simulation engine for that. You can't simulate it all equally good with one engine. And tell me when it is ready,

Actually quite a lot of the physics in Orbiter would be fine. The trick would be that a separate layer of "atmosphere" would be needed to model the seas as a dense liquid, and add-on developers would need to modify their coefficients for the different Reynolds number regimes. Buoyant forces can be calculated easily. I made a dirigible add-on many many years ago that worked but I don't have it anymore.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Sounds BAD.

Why didn't they paint at least parts of it orange?

Who knows? Maybe they don't sell orange spray paint at the Best Buy where they bought the Logitech controllers. A yellow submarine could have a certain PR appeal too. A roll of reflective tape on all topside edges and corners would help too. In addition to that, I don't see why they couldn't make something like a simple retroreflector out of light sheet metal to make them an easier radar target for surface vessels.

When your safety culture can't even be asked to splash out a few hundred bucks for rudimentary things to expedite a recovery, you have a problem. The CEO really thought he was making a sea elevator and there was no possibility of getting lost. Things that work well on paper tend to get beaten to death when they go into the sea.

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually quite a lot of the physics in Orbiter would be fine. The trick would be that a separate layer of "atmosphere" would be needed to model the seas as a dense liquid, and add-on developers would need to modify their coefficients for the different Reynolds number regimes. Buoyant forces can be calculated easily. I made a dirigible add-on many many years ago that worked but I don't have it anymore.

Yes, but its also about visualization, numeric stability, boundary problems....

Its easier to stay in the comfort zone.

I wanted to make a Zeppelin add-on a while ago, but now it has to wait. But likely with too much focus on crew management and weather. Also I need better meshes for that.

 

[Urwumpe]

BTW, I decided to give SubROV a try, it fits to the theme of today and is safe-for-my-children.