News Boeing 767 cargo plane crashes outside Houston with 3 on board

[Urwumpe]

Ok. But yes, rain and turbulence don't bring a 767 down by themselves.

Finding the data recorders seems complicated. If they could track the transmitters, then they would have found them by now I would think. I assume the tides deposit a fresh layer of mud on top of them.

I doubt that will work in muddy swamps. maybe not even enough water depth to trigger the sonar beacon.

 

[jgrillo2002]

This definitely smells like a turbulence related incident.

 

[Graham2001]

FWIW here is the first NTSB Press Briefing.

[ame="http://youtu.be/Me7zDd-YN7Y"]NTSB Anahuac, TX Cargo Jet Crash Press Briefing 1 - YouTube[/ame]

 

[n122vu]

Judging by the compactness of the debris field, and the level of disintegration on impact, it's entirely possible the recorders buried themselves in a few feet of mud under the 5 feet of water with the force of the impact. I think finding them is going to be a serious challenge indeed.

 

[Urwumpe]

Judging by the compactness of the debris field, and the level of disintegration on impact, it's entirely possible the recorders buried themselves in a few feet of mud under the 5 feet of water with the force of the impact. I think finding them is going to be a serious challenge indeed.

Well, the good news are, they are in the rear of the aircraft, about at the root of the vertical stabilizer before the aircraft got turned into confetti.

Since the aircraft impacted nose first, that means that most impact energy was already dissipated when the section around the recorders was hit. But the bad news are: The recorders are two small pieces among ten thousands of metal fragments.

Comb the desert swamp!

 

[n122vu]

True, but they were descending at a rate of at lest 7k feet per minute. That's roughly 117 fps. Even with the fuselage absorbing a lot of that energy, they were still moving at a high velocity by the time they impacted.

Comb nothing, they need to drain it.*

*no political affiliation or endorsement is implied by this statement

 

[Urwumpe]

True, but they were descending at a rate of at lest 7k feet per minute. That's roughly 117 fps. Even with the fuselage absorbing a lot of that energy, they were still moving at a high velocity by the time they impacted.

Still, every m/s absorbed increases the chances that the recorders are intact and not thrown far away from the rest of the stern. Just 5 m/s less makes a big difference when impacting at about 100 m/s on impact (remember the 7000 fpm are just the last radar contact and it was still flying forward at about 240 Kts or 120 m/s)

 

[Artlav]

Well, at least it's not Florida... or are there gators in Texas swamps too?

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, at least it's not Florida... or are there gators in Texas swamps too?

Of course they are. Its even the same species as in Florida. :lol:

 

[Quick_Nick]

Well, at least it's not Florida... or are there gators in Texas swamps too?

Along the shallow wetlands, I would mostly be looking out for all manner of snakes.

Sent from my SM-G930U using Tapatalk

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Some B-Roll footage from the crash site...

[ame="http://youtu.be/hfa4S7Heal0"]NTSB B-Roll of Anahuac, TX Cargo Jet Crash Site - YouTube[/ame]

 

[APDAF]

What are the chances the load shifted foward and tipped the nose down?
Or maybe they hit by lightning and the instraments began to go haywire and they lawndarted because the pilots thought the plane is doing something it wasn't.

 

[Marijn]

What are the chances the load shifted foward and tipped the nose down?

In that case, the plane would pick up speed. Diving is converting potential energy into kinetic energy. The sum, the total energy, remains the same, apart from losses due to drag. So when altitude goes down, speed must go up.

The data in the video does not show an increase in horizontal speed while descending rapidly. Although I assume groundspeed is indicated and not airspeed, I still think at least one frame should indicate an increase in speed while diving into a headwind. Perhaps the indication is not very accurate.

To me, this suggests that the plane did incur additional drag. I think it's the normal extension of flaps and or speedbrakes.

---------- Post added at 11:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 AM ----------

Also, when the COG moves forward, the pilot can still pull the 'stick' to correct for this. Only when the stick is fully pulled back and the nose is still dropping below the horizon, then there is a big problem. So if this was the case, I would not expect a rapid decent but a gradual one.

 

[Urwumpe]

To me, this suggests that the plane did incur additional drag. I think it's the normal extension of flaps and or speedbrakes.

Yes. Of course, more interesting would be TAS in that context, not ground speed, to estimate the available energy. But even if you combine the last ground speed samples and the last vertical speed samples, the aircraft lost clearly speed in the final seconds of flight

At least, its sure no FBW issue, since the 767 has no FBW.

 

[Marijn]

I missed it in the news, but they found at least one flight data recorder over a week ago. It seems to be the voice recorder. Hopefully they will provide information soon.

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/03/03/us/texas-cargo-jet-flight-data-recorder/index.html

 

[n122vu]

Both recorders have been found. The Flight Data Recorder was found just a few days after the CVR.

https://aviationweek.com/awincommer...ed-atlas-air-freighter-s-flight-data-recorder

initial review of the CVR data has been completed.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...completes-atlas-air-cockpit-voice-rec-456359/

The agency says that “crew communications consistent with a loss control of the aircraft” began 18s prior to the end of the cockpit voice recording, which is 2h long.