SSU Development thread (4.0 to 5.0) [DEVELOPMENT HALTED DUE TIME REQUIREMENTS!]

[GLS]

Night landings can now have the Xenon Lights illuminating the initial part of the runway! It looks great in MOGE, no so much in D3D9... :shrug: maybe a lights setting?
Anyway, I changed the Xenons so that if the PAN_TILT parameter is specified it points in that direction, instead of the default "search for the vehicle in the pad" mode.

I'll now finish the Crawler, which requires some vc rework to change all the texture painting going on in there with UV editing. And it's pretty much it from my end for SSU 5.0.

 

[DaveS]

I'm about a day or so away from finishing the orbiter. Doing some final touch up work on the Ku band antenna right now. Quick q: Could the coordinate conversion spreadsheet be converted to an actual Win32 application, similar to the MECOTool? I have used so often lately, that I'd like the ability to pin it to my task bar which currently isn't possible with the xls file.

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm about a day or so away from finishing the orbiter. Doing some final touch up work on the Ku band antenna right now. Quick q: Could the coordinate conversion spreadsheet be converted to an actual Win32 application, similar to the MECOTool? I have used so often lately, that I'd like the ability to pin it to my task bar which currently isn't possible with the xls file.

Sure. No big deal. If your 3D tool allows GUI extensions, it would even be possible to integrate it there.

 

[Wolf]

I found myself the other day spending 20’ in editing litterally pixel by pixel one of the orbiter’s labels in order to make it readable (BTW how many users will actually pay attention to those labels?...).
That was the clear sign I had crossed the threshold of mental sanity and was ready to be hospitalized...
The new skins are almost ready. While initially this work was meant to edit the new rudder I ended up making a total new texture (by modifing or even re drawing from scratch most of it). The amount of details I could find thanks to some new schematics and pictures led me to add more and more stuff to the point that now almost every tile, blanket, vent, port, rivet has been added.
So no, you won’t look at the real shuttle when you’ll use SSU but it’ll be quite close to it ;-)

 

[DaveS]

Checked in the new orbiter mesh which should address the latest round of issues listed in ticket#177. I also went ahead and mapped both sides of the vertical stabilizer/RSB panels to the same texture as discussed here: https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=594146&postcount=2513

 

[Wolf]

I am afraid I'll give up. The whole FRCS area has distortions and the RCS nozzles are now again offset.
I have been working for months on the textures and everytime I think I am finally done a new mesh update pops up and all the work is wasted on this side.
I am not blaming anyone, it is probably my lack of knowledge on how to handle this kind of stuff properly, but this is getting "a bit" frustrating...
Sorry guys I can't help more than this

 

[DaveS]

I am afraid I'll give up. The whole FRCS area has distortions and the RCS nozzles are now again offset.
I have been working for months on the textures and everytime I think I am finally done a new mesh update pops up and all the work is wasted on this side.
I am not blaming anyone, it is probably my lack of knowledge on how to handle this kind of stuff properly, but this is getting "a bit" frustrating...
Sorry guys I can't help more than this

Could you show this distortion? Are you talking about the forward/upward firing jets? I thought that we discussed this agreed that that the texture would need to be changed to fit the proper locations of the jets as previously they were wrong.

---------- Post added at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:50 PM ----------

Sure. No big deal. If your 3D tool allows GUI extensions, it would even be possible to integrate it there.

I primarily use AC3D which is very plug-in friendly, so that should not be a problem.

 

[GLS]

The UV mapping does look bad (as it did before) with ovbious seams over the FRCS access doors and all the way to the nose cap...

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

What is the difference between the 1980 and the "regular" Crawler, that justifies 2 meshes?
Also, are there any differences between the 2 cabins that justifies that one also having 2 meshes?

 

[DaveS]

I took another stab at the mapping of the FRCS/FWD fuselage and the distortions should be a thing of the past now.

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 PM ----------

The UV mapping does look bad (as it did before) with ovbious seams over the FRCS access doors and all the way to the nose cap...

---------- Post added at 10:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 PM ----------

What is the difference between the 1980 and the "regular" Crawler, that justifies 2 meshes?
Also, are there any differences between the 2 cabins that justifies that one also having 2 meshes?

The "regular" is how the Crawler(s) looked like after their 2004 mod period where they added alot of stuff (mainly sound-attenuation gear) and relocated some other things. The main differences are the extended and elevated exhaust ducts for the various diesel gen-sets. They also relocated the cooling radiators for the ALCO generators.
The cabins were replaced with newly manufactured units that actually had hurricane rated windows (you'd think that they would have this from the out-set given the Crawler's operational location on the east coast of Florida).

The 1980 is how they looked at the start of the main operations-era for the shuttle program after they had been modified from their original-Apollo appearance.

 

[Wolf]

I took another stab at the mapping of the FRCS/FWD fuselage and the distortions should be a thing of the past now.

It's not!


The whole FCRS area is wrong


Front



BEFORE


AFTER






Side


BEFORE


AFTER




The "BEFORE" screenshots refer to the texture after I managed to fix the RCS jets nozzles (and it was a pain in the ass). AFTER is what we have now.


There are also some minor deformations in the roof area between the flight deck and the PBD (both the LRSI and FRSI areas are affected)

 

[DaveS]

The misplaced FRCS jets were discussed starting with this post: https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=592497&postcount=2454

I'm working on the section between doors and the canopy (that's what that section is called).

 

[Wolf]

The misplaced FRCS jets were discussed starting with this post: https://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=592497&postcount=2454

Exactly and since then I' ve been working to fix that: as you can see from the screenshots I was able to reposition the RCS jet nozzles correctly. According to what you said the orbiter mesh was to be considered done once and for all with no need for any further adjustment (except the wing distortion issue) and I think I asked you twice to make sure the texture work was not going to be wasted. Then yesterday a new update was released and we are back to square one..
I am done with the textures, I have edited and updated them a dozen time.

 

[DaveS]

Exactly and since then I' ve been working to fix that: as you can see from the screenshots I was able to reposition the RCS jet nozzles correctly. According to what you said the orbiter mesh was to be considered done once and for all with no need for any further adjustment (except the wing distortion issue) and I think I asked you twice to make sure the texture work was not going to be wasted. Then yesterday a new update was released and we are back to square one..
I am done with the textures, I have edited and updated them a dozen time.

I think you must have misread what I wrote then, the previous mesh was not the done mesh since GLS kept finding faults with it, hence ticket#177. In the process of fixing the faults that GLS found, I myself found that the FRCS jets were misplaced and I relocated them to their real positions in the revision 3058 mesh which I checked in only yesterday. The screenshot you used, was from that mesh, not the previous one.


Anyway, revision 3060 is in and things should be better now, except for the FRCS jets as previously discussed.

 

[Wolf]

3060 made things even worse: the whole nose section is affected, the star trackers doors are now almost even with the rest of the fuselage (only slightly "engraved) and for some reason I can now see the star tracker (which is part of the texture) instead of its door, the cockpit/canopy area has shrunk (as you can see from the RESCUE label now attached to the overhead window, the HRSI tiles and flight deck windows).



There are also two creases on the sides.
Again, nothing personal, but I am not gonna work on an ever changing mesh as any adjustment will need a new texture fix.
There is no way I can work on the textures if the mesh they depend on are not right and kept being updated now and then.

 

[DaveS]

I've fixed the creases and the position of the RESCUE triangle and the star trackers but what are your solution to the FRCS quandry? Anyone else wants to weigh in?

 

[GLS]

Anyone else wants to weigh in?

My :2cents: on "general" 3D development, not necessarily this situation in which I don't have the textures and haven't looked at the UV mapping, or even the latest mesh:
I think everyone knows that the mesh must be accurate so it looks real, and no major problems come from that, but then comes the time to "dress" the mesh, and that's when things sometimes go off the rails.
I haven't played much with UV mapping and texture development to be an expert, but it seems so much more easier if the UV mapping is kept as the editor did it (whichever settings were chosen), and also keeping the features in the texture with an aspect ratio as close as possible to reality.
Yes, when shapes get complex it's not easy, but when we start moving the UV coordinates, and/or the features in the texture around, we easily get in a situation where we are creating instead of imitating, which is the purpose of most projects in Orbiter.

More specifically on this issue now:
I think it's better to all to take a few days off this specific task (there are tons of other things to do, or just go outside because it's Summer :lol, so I can take a look at the mesh with calm (still working the Crawler vc and logic, plus some personal stuff, so can't jump to it right now). Hopefully later in the week or so we can freeze the mesh (I'll edit it myself if needed), and then sort this UV business.

 

[DaveS]

Well, right now it isn't as much about the actual mapping than it is about the actual positions of the FRCS jets. Right now as you can see in Wolf's screenshots, they're not where they are in the texture which leads to the mapping being off and things look warped and weird.

It seems that he misread my earlier post about the jets on the +Z side of the FRCS module and corrected them too early applying the corrections to the previous mesh which was the wrong thing to do, before I had finished and checked in the new mesh where the texture corrections were needed.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I have a quick question, awhile ago I took the textures from SSU and painstakingly adapted them for use with Shuttle Fleet 4.8. I've had fellow orbinauts express interest in the textures as I featured them in the screenshot thread, and I was wondering if I could have your blessing to upload them to the Hangar?

 

[Wolf]

I have a quick question, awhile ago I took the textures from SSU and painstakingly adapted them for use with Shuttle Fleet 4.8. I've had fellow orbinauts express interest in the textures as I featured them in the screenshot thread, and I was wondering if I could have your blessing to upload them to the Hangar?

There are high resolution textures for the Shuttle Fleet available already and you can find them here:
http://out.accessify.com/visit?domain=orbithangar.com
If you'd rather use the SSU ones customized for the SF feel free to go ahead: I have no problems with that as long asd you give credit to the original textures' author.


BTW I might well release new textures for the Shuttle Fleet (much more detailed than the current SSU ones you have used) since the project is now reborn and also because I cannot commit to release the new textures for SSU due to its ever-changing mesh and the apparent inability to fix the mapping

 

[GLS]

So with the Crawler (mostly) out of the way, tomorrow I'll start on the Orbiter.msh mesh. DaveS, if you have any changes to it you probably should commit them, as I will fix on the spot any issues that I can.
Hopefully we can start alpha testing sometime this month.