Updates SpaceX Falcon Heavy with Red Dragon, NET 2018

[Kyle]

SpaceX has announced that it will send a Dragon v2 on a Falcon Heavy to Mars in 2018!

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2016/04/spacex-debut-red-dragon-2018-mars-mission/

 

[Urwumpe]

And?

Who does mission control?
Do they use DSN?
What about planetary protection? Does SpaceX care about not contaminating Mars?

 

[Kyle]

And?

Who does mission control?
Do they use DSN?
What about planetary protection? Does SpaceX care about not contaminating Mars?

A) I believe this would be on the SpaceX end in Hawthorne.
B) Good question, not sure. I'd assume yes. BEO Dragon would likely have upgraded communication abilities compared to LEO Dragon.
C) NASA hasn't really followed it particularly strictly since Viking either since Viking per some of the posters on NSF.com. Exposure to space and S/C re-entry is apparently enough to clean any major contaminants.

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 PM ----------

Here's the NASA statement regarding the announcement:

http://blogs.nasa.gov/newman/2016/04/27/exploring-together/?linkId=23925499

Basically an unfunded SAA.

 

[Urwumpe]

Here's the NASA statement regarding the announcement:

http://blogs.nasa.gov/newman/2016/04/27/exploring-together/?linkId=23925499

Basically an unfunded SAA.

Yes, then it is also clear that SpaceX will likely get DSN and JPL support.

 

[Kyle]

Concept art image from SpaceX's Flicker of Dragon/FH heading to Mars.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex/26405463180
https://www.flickr.com/photos/spacex/26405462060

 

[Thunder Chicken]

I'll believe it when I see it; they have yet to actually fly Falcon 9H or Dragon2.

But this is 2 years away. In 4 years SpaceX went from blowing up Falcon 1s on Kwajalein to delivering customer payloads to orbit and flying the stage back for successful landings. I think it is possible, but there are new assemblies and processes to be understood before they get to Mars.

 

[Kyle]

I found it interesting that the illustration showed Falcon Heavy in its full flyback configuration. I don't think there's enough dV for flyback FH to send a Dragon to Mars.

 

[boogabooga]

Translation:

SpaceX is moving on from having NASA as customer to having NASA as a competitor.

They have their own vision for human Mars exploration (it's practically Elon's manifesto), and SLS/Orion is not a part of it. They intend to make their point (to the politicians) by putting working hardware down on Mars before any of them, even after their competitors' protracted and expensive development cycle.

The use (or not)of the DSN will be very telling, because it is a political question and not a practical one. I don't expect NASA will want to cooperate. It will be very telling if we come to find that SpaceX is developing its own deep space communication capability.

 

[Kyle]

Translation:

SpaceX is moving on from having NASA as customer to having NASA as a competitor.

They have their own vision for human Mars exploration (it's practically Elon's manifesto), and SLS/Orion is not a part of it. They intend to make their point (to the politicians) by putting working hardware down on Mars before any of them, even after their competitors' protracted and expensive development cycle.

The use (or not)of the DSN will be very telling, because it is a political question and not a practical one. I don't expect NASA will want to cooperate. It will be very telling if we come to find that SpaceX is developing its own deep space communication capability.

Quite the inverse is true. There's not a lot of anti-SpaceX sentiment at NASA and many are fed up with the #JourneytoMars stuff. NASA is incredibly excited to work with SpaceX on this opportunity and per the SAA they're more than willing to let SpaceX use the DSN. It's JPL that might view SpaceX as a competitor.

 

[boogabooga]

Quite the inverse is true. There's not a lot of anti-SpaceX sentiment at NASA and many are fed up with the #JourneytoMars stuff. NASA is incredibly excited to work with SpaceX on this opportunity and per the SAA they're more than willing to let SpaceX use the DSN. It's JPL that might view SpaceX as a competitor.

Certainly not NASA administration. They have their careers invested in SLS/Orion. NASA has an envisioned role for the commercial sector, and that is low earth orbit. The whole idea was to free up NASA for the BEO missions. But SpaceX has NEVER seen themselves as limited to low earth orbit.

There are definitely competing ambitions here.

 

[Kyle]

Certainly not NASA administration. They have their careers invested in SLS/Orion. NASA has an envisioned role for the commercial sector, and that is low earth orbit. The whole idea was to free up NASA for the BEO missions. But SpaceX has NEVER seen themselves as limited to low earth orbit.

There are definitely competing ambitions here.

I don't agree, see Lori Garver's comments regarding SLS.

NASA has been involved every step of the way in the development of CRS Dragon, Dv2, Falcon 9, and Falcon Heavy. They've even leased a test stand in Stennis for Raptor testing and their own Space Shuttle pad for Falcon Heavy, all with the knowledge that SpaceX's ambitions is towards Mars. I don't doubt that some in NASA view SpaceX as a threat to their careers, but many more see SpaceX as likely partners for Mars missions.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

There are definitely competing ambitions here.

I think most of NASA is practically onboard with the idea that it soon won't need to be in the rocket building business. I think they'd love to see commercial capability that they could simply contract out. They'd really like to get down to the science and the bleeding edge technology development, not perpetually designing and building rockets, especially when no one can agree where they should go, or whether they should go there.

The real problem is justifying funding to NASA. SLS/Orion is a pork barrel project. I doubt it will ever leave the ground, but it will have kept a lot of people paid and busy. If a more efficient commercial "off the shelf" alternative exists, what is the next sexy development program NASA can trot out to keep the congress-critters happy?

The sad reality is that NASAs heyday with Apollo is over, and a downsizing (or at least a restructuring) is long overdue. They have been struggling for decades to find themselves again after the Apollo program ended, and all they can do is propose manned missions on <a new rocket> to <some destination>. They haven't really been able to reinvent themselves as a aerospace science agency, a technology enabler; this is a much less sexy but vitally important and much more practical role for NASA to play.

 

[ADSWNJ]

The ambition and execution track of Elon is simply amazing. 2018 for a *private* trip to Mars. Incredible.

 

[boogabooga]

I don't agree, see Lori Garver's comments regarding SLS.

And notice how she doesn't work there anymore...

 

[Andy44]

NASA is a government agency. It's not supposed to be "competing" with anyone.

If they do (and they have done so, aggressively, especially with STS blocking out other launchers in the 80s) then something is wrong. (And it is.)