Question Why so many different graphics clients?

[Will]

Hello,

I am completely confused by pretty much this entire section of the forum! Why are there threads for DirectX 9 and threads for 11? What is the point of making it DirectX 9 if it's also going to be Direct X 11? I don't even really know what DirectX does (something to do with graphics). What is still in development and what is not? What is this OGLAClient 100608? Why does the D3D11Client Development seem to start about half way through a thread?

Can someone basically explain essentially what this entire forum section is about?

Sorry for being such a :facepalm: but I'm so confused!

Thanks,

Will

 

[tl8]

The 2010 Orbiter Client has the graphics engine and the physics engines separated. This means that the graphics engine can be developed by a 3rd Party.

The default graphics Engine is DirectX 7. This a problematic because Windows Vista and 7 only emulate DX7 rather than having hardware support.

By using the OrbiterNG client, you are able to select which graphics engine you want
OpenGL with OGLA, DirectX 7 (The same as normal Orbiter), DirectX9 (Which is older, but very popular and has hardware support) and DirectX 11 (latest and greatest and only works with Win 7).

Each are in different stages of development with DX9 and DX11 in active development and OGLA in hibernation.

 

[Face]

:hesaid:

and I'd like to add:

Why does the D3D11Client Development seem to start about half way through a thread?

Because it DID start half way through a thread, namely the D3D9 development thread. In order to not clutter up that base thread, the relevant discussion was moved to its own.

regards,
Face

 

[n122vu]

What is the point of making it DirectX 9 if it's also going to be Direct X 11?

I would add here that Windows XP doesn't support DX11, therefore DX9 is the only option for its users beyond the stock DX7 client (though there was an external DX7 client being developed, but I believe that project is dead, as it should be, since it is made obsolete by the DX9 client).

You may ask yourself, "Why do we still support XP?*" And the answer is quite simply because Microsoft still is, until April 8 of 2014 (Extended support, that is).



*Letting the days go by, water flowing underground...

 

[Spacethingy]

You may ask yourself, "Why do we still support XP?"

Because if it stopped now, there are enough XP users still to storm the building and take hostages for ransom...

I don't even really know what DirectX does... what is this OGLAClient 100608?

Basically DirectX is a collection of Microsoft bits of software that allows you to do graphics on PC games and the XBOX etc. OpenGL (as in the OGL-a Orbiter client) is a similar idea, but it's open source and runs on Linux as well as Windows.

Sorry for being such a :facepalm: but I'm so confused!

Don't worry. You're confused because it is confusing...

 

[N_Molson]

Because if it stopped now, there are enough XP users still to storm the building and take hostages for ransom...

And I'll be with them. :lol: :threadjacked: :hunter:

 

[Cras]

The Direct X 11 client may be out of reach for a lot of Orbinauts. Not only does it require hardware that can support it and Windows 7, that still will not be enough. The goal is for the D3D11 client to be high end, and require a serious machine to run with a good frame rate. D3D9 will serve as the alternative to that, good graphics that pretty much any machine can run well.

 

[agentgonzo]

Thread hijack (and apologies therewith).

Can someone give a quick summary as to the features that the DX11 client offers over DX9 and DX9 over DX7, along with how 'complete' they are (ie, how many things don't work in them that would be irritating if you used them in orbiter at the moment)

I haven't managed to play in space in ages.

Thanks!

 

[Cras]

DX9 is pretty darn complete. The biggest thing anyone will notice, at least for me, is that any graphics client will not have runway lights. DX11 has already solved this, and did so brilliantly I might add. DX9 is going to have that feature included in the next release.

DX11 also is going to include terrain. This is a big big deal. It also has various other things added that enhances the visuals. DX9 looks stunning in terms of the light over the default inline client, and DX11 takes it a step further, with the light effects, the post processing. Just take the default Delta Glider out for a spin and turn on the nav and strobe lights. It is amazing.

As for things that don't work, The XR series seems to work fine in DX11. Somethings I have come across does not work so nice, but that does not mean that as the client matures, the needed tweaks to those add-ons will not be made. Most things work in DX9 client. Aside from the DGIV. That just does not work with graphics clients, period. But just about everything I try in D3D9 works. Multistage craft, spacecraft 3, bases, and of course XR series and Shuttle Fleet, both of which the latest releases were made specifically to work under the graphic client enviornment.

Frame rate boost is quite big for me going from in-line to D3D9. that alone is worth giving it a look.

 

[Will]

This is a lot clearer now thank you!

Counter thread-hijack! What are these Betas? I take it they are for the different graphics clients that have now been explained to me? http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/orbitervis/index.php?title=OrbiterPublicBeta

 

[Cras]

the latest D3D11 versions are only for Orbiter Beta. So what you do it download Orbiter 2010P1, then grab and install the orbiter111105-100830diff.7z file.

Then follow the instructions here: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=26147

to install D3D11.


D3D9 tends to have a version released for 2010P1 and one for the Orbiter Beta.
follow the instructions in the first post of the D3D9 client thread: http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=18431

to install the client.

 

[Artlav]

Aside from the DGIV. That just does not work with graphics clients, period.

What is it exactly that is a problem with DGIV?
I can't remember having any specific ones.

 

[Gr_Chris_pilot]

What is it exactly that is a problem with DGIV?
I can't remember having any specific ones.

The DGIV is not working with graphics clients like D3D9... The orbiter_ng.exe is using clients like the D3D9 not the default orbiter.exe

 

[Artlav]

The DGIV is not working with graphics clients like D3D9... The orbiter_ng.exe is using clients like the D3D9 not the default orbiter.exe

The only problem i have with DGIV in OGLAClient is that the skins does not always show up, so it's not a fundamental orbiter_ng issues, but a D3D7/9/11 clients thing.
So, what is it that prevents DGIV from working in them?

 

[jarmonik]

So, what is it that prevents DGIV from working in them?

As far as I recall it's just passing a NULL handle to the Orbiter API causing a CTD in the Orbiter.exe. It's just a one bad call in the clbkVisualCreated(). I have run DGIV under D3D9. There exists a dirty hack to get it working but I won't put such thing in my software it's just too dirty. Better to fix the problem from the first place.

The only problem i have with DGIV in OGLAClient is that the skins does not always show up

Maybe a well placed memory leak ?

 

[Artlav]

Maybe a well placed memory leak ?

Not anything i've intentionally placed.
Blind luck, i guess.

 

[SiberianTiger]

The Direct X 11 client may be out of reach for a lot of Orbinauts. Not only does it require hardware that can support it and Windows 7, that still will not be enough. The goal is for the D3D11 client to be high end, and require a serious machine to run with a good frame rate. D3D9 will serve as the alternative to that, good graphics that pretty much any machine can run well.

Well, I hope for generosity of high-end system owners who would provide the poor screenshots and videos made in their shiny D3D11 Orbiters.

 

[jarmonik]

This is going a little off-topic but here is a DGIV with D3D9. I don't know how stable it is but seems to be working well sofar. Not a good idea to put a hacks like this in the software.

 

[Cras]

I did put a post over at Dan's website about updating the DGIV so it could work under a graphics client, but so far no replies.

 

[Gr_Chris_pilot]

This is going a little off-topic but here is a DGIV with D3D9. I don't know how stable it is but seems to be working well sofar. Not a good idea to put a hacks like this in the software.

:OMG::compbash: hmmm i think i want to give it a try!