News Elon Musk wants to put millions of people on Mars.

The MCT booster has an inert mass fraction of 3.9%, that is pretty low, but not completely outside the possible.

Total dV of the booster is at least 7070 m/s based on sea level specific impulse and full fuel mass.
 
They're apparently planning to launch the lander with it's tanks empty and fuel it in orbit.
 
LOOK AT THAT HECK OF A TANK! :blink:
 
Holy crap the first booster is under construction and they have photos.

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:ninja:'d by Urwumpe.

"Too big to transport by road" no kidding.
 
I think they should send some scouts first.
 
Wow, 12m, that's bigger than the S-IC from the Saturn V!

29 million pounds of thrust off the pad vs. 7.5 million pounds on the S-IC. :huh:

Madness. I love it though.

Now if he can just keep his F9 second stage tanks from exploding. :dry:

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Was in the presentation, they had finished a carbon-fiber oxygen tank of the MCT with 12 meter diameter. I really wonder where they are hiding an autoclave large enough to bake that one.

The tank photos are at 1:22:30 in the presentation at http://www.spacex.com/mars for anyone else that may be looking for them.

Powerpoints and animations are great, but when he turns and points to a photo of actual hardware and says that they're actually building it...that's a special level of awesome.

EDIT: Some screen captures of the photos of the tanks.
 

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Think about the big picture. Who is going to want to give up a comfortable life on Earth to fight for their own survival everyday on Mars?

The early colonization of America was also very painful. Colonists eating each other on their way to starving to death was a part of the process. Could that happen again if things on the Mars colony go wrong? In a 24/7 socially-networked news cycle, could this whole endeavor survive in case of some really bad PR?

Perhaps the Australia model where we send convicts first? :oh:
 
Think about the big picture. Who is going to want to give up a comfortable life on Earth to fight for their own survival everyday on Mars?

Why did Shackleton and other explorers go to Antarctica? Why did Hillary climb Everest? They could have just relaxed by the fire at home, but we'd never know their names today if they did. Who wouldn't want to be remembered as one of the first of our species to colonize another planet? A lot of people would gladly enter that struggle simply to give meaning and value to their lives, never mind the actual living experiences.
 
The MCT booster has an inert mass fraction of 3.9%, that is pretty low, but not completely outside the possible.

Total dV of the booster is at least 7070 m/s based on sea level specific impulse and full fuel mass.

And how much would be the delta-v using the 382 s vacuum Isp for the booster? :thumbup:

BTW, this collection of slides from Elon's presentation was posted to Reddit:

http://imgur.com/a/20nku

Bob Clark
 
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Why did Shackleton and other explorers go to Antarctica? Why did Hillary climb Everest? They could have just relaxed by the fire at home, but we'd never know their names today if they did. Who wouldn't want to be remembered as one of the first of our species to colonize another planet? A lot of people would gladly enter that struggle simply to give meaning and value to their lives, never mind the actual living experiences.

Exploration is something else entirely! Sure, exploration is great. But neither Shackleton nor Hillary made those places their new permanent homes. To this day, nobody lives on Everest and Antarctica is only inhabited for research purposes, and those that live there only do so temporarily.

Also, keep in mind how many have died on both Everest and Antarctica.

I think a Mars colony would be much worse lifestyle-wise than an Antarctic colony, which at least has breathable air. Yet, where are all the well-to-do volunteers willing to settle Antarctica?
 
My thoughts about the presentation:

- I expected the integrated second stage + transfer vehicle to be a cylindrical lifting body (because it presents a larger surface area than a capsule shape during aerocapture into Mars's thin atmosphere).

- Need to improve cost for a trip to Mars by 5,000,000% (30:15). Compare that with Kankoh-maru, another ambitious proposal that was a Japanese LEO tourism SSTO which was planned to bring prices down to $20,000 with a market of 1,000,000 passengers per year (a factor of 100,000% compared to the $20+ million one might pay to get into LEO today). (Might TSTO have made things more efficient?)

- Very large windows might be a structural weakness (or contribute a significant amount to dry mass)

- Vertical integration, with a crane, on the pad! What is a VAB even for, then? He also mentions the booster and spacecraft being constructed in the Gulf States (1:27:34), so there will be water transport. Also, absolute precision required for RTLS landing.

- If a "Mars Colonial Fleet" (44:03) needs to be gathered in LEO, ITS tankers acting as depots might be necessary in between the 2-year launch windows to Mars, so a crewed ITS can refuel soon after launching and the ECLSS can be prioritized for the transfer and not the loitering. (also note the reference to "Battlestar Galactica," which used to be used derisively for the expendable, expensive 90-Day Report architecture)

- The deployment of cargo such as rovers for water mining an issue. How big would those rovers need to be, anyway? The payload would be at the very top, as well (was expecting it to be below the tanks, like this). A crane would be needed, but how does the crane get to the surface in the first place?

- 300 (reusable) to 550 (expendable) tonnes to LEO, Sea Dragon-class! But how will acoustics be managed during launch?
(also, does 300 include the dry mass of BFS [150 t] itself?)

- I wish he would have gone into more detail about how the in-situ water extraction systems would work.

- Ship and booster testing is supposed to begin in 2018-2019, Mars flights in late 2022 (1:14:30). A huge technological leap from Red Dragon to Heart of Gold (name of the first MCT/ITS lander) in about 5 years. Not sure if they will meet this on time, but it'll be very impressive if they do. At least they already have 12 meter tanks, so there's that.

- "Planet-hopping" with ISRU facilities everywhere (1:23:58) will be used to get to the outer planets (e.g. Mars to Jupiter). But what about all that radiation? Much worse than a Earth -> Mars trip.

- (1:48:34) When talking about interstellar travel, "very tricky" is an understatement. And so is "going from a Wright Flyer to a 747."

- Most of the Q&A was dumb but one thing that could be taken away was that Musk doesn't want SpaceX to be a monopoly on interplanetary transport; he wants to encourage others around the world to develop their own interplanetary vehicle architectures. (1:54:25)

Ultimately, I am both excited and skeptical.
 
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Think about the big picture. Who is going to want to give up a comfortable life on Earth to fight for their own survival everyday on Mars?

Send the MarsOne 100 candidates :thumbup:
 
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