Payware Add-ons

[N_Molson]

O-F Staff Note: Please discuss any Payware Add-on thoughts here.

I think that Martins doctrine is the right one.

Donations on a volunteer basis seem a good system to me. Freeware policy also allows access to all addons by people that doesn't have a bank account yet or are not authorized to use it online (or just have no money, even $10 can be a lot of money in some countries), that's a point.

And again, congratulations for your excellent work (while I personnally prefer very-realistic addons).

 

[Urwumpe]

I think that Martins doctrine is the right one.

Donations on a volunteer basis seem a good system to me. Freeware policy also allows access to all addons by people that doesn't have a bank account yet or are not authorized to use it online (or just have no money, even $10 can be a lot of money in some countries), that's a point.

And again, congratulations for your excellent work (while I personnally prefer very-realistic addons).

Of course it means also another aspect: If I pay for a product, I also pay for support. Paying customers are really annoying, but a necessary evil.

Donations are for the stuff you did in the past and what people hope that you will do. It comes without obligations of any sort, I even feel a bit like it inverts it:

For using these add-ons, I feel bound by honor that I now, that I earn a net salary that can be expressed by unsigned integer numbers, also support the add-on makers for all the joy I had for free.

It is annoying. But well, I rather use something for months and then pay more because it was really worth it, then waiting for a low enough price to take the risk and buy it to test it.

 

[Jarvitä]

I'm confused, which part of the orbiter license specifically prohibits charging money for self-authored addons?

 

[N_Molson]

Self-authored addons use the SDK & libraries, which are parts of Orbiter.

For using these add-ons, I feel bound by honor that I now, that I earn a net salary that can be expressed by unsigned integer numbers, also support the add-on makers for all the joy I had for free.

I rather see it as : "oh, this is an amazing add-on project, I enjoy it and would like to see updates or extensions to it. By giving a few bucks from time to time, I help by bringing an additional motivation to the author, that is more likely to release updates/extensions in the future. By offering some money, I allow him to spend more time to developpement, and speed up the process."

For me, it's a kind of friendly investment or participation.

 

[dbeachy1]

I'm confused, which part of the orbiter license specifically prohibits charging money for self-authored addons?

This part, as I read it:

■You will not use Orbiter or any parts of it to advertise, promote, present or sell any software or other product without explicit prior written permission by the licensor.

Payware Orbiter add-ons would still require Orbiter to run and would therefore fall under the preceding clause.

 

[Saturn V]

I don't think much about the legalities of doing add-ons.

If I find a subject I'm interested enough in, I mod like Hell until I've got something I'm happy using.

Yeah, I'll upload them to OH to share with the community. If someone posts a bug, I'll go back and address the issue, but I don't consider myself an add-on developer per se since it's stuff I'd be doing for my own use anyway.

I mean I'm happy if other folks enjoy using them too, but I've never really thought about any personal gain aside from a little satisfaction.

I've enjoyed too many add-ons done by others (at no cost to me) to consider it moral, never mind legal, to try and profit by anything I do here.

 

[Pablo49]

My problem with donations are when the developer (or any content creator, outside the context of orbiter) asks for donations. Sticking a donate button somewhere, but without really promoting would be how I prefer it. If the product is free, then it is free, and that's that. If a user wishes to donate, that should be entirely on their own will, without quilt trips, explanations, or reading what's basically an ad.

I don't like the idea of a developer basically saying "My creation is of <this quality> and should deserve some money." or 'My creation is the same quality as <other creation> and should deserve the same money." I don't think it's the developers place to talk you into a donation, nor do I think it's the developer's place to tell you what quality their creation is. Time and effort is objective, perceived quality and value is not. (This in regards to freeware developers, of course. Obviously payware developers have that right to tell you the value.)

 

[Linguofreak]

O-F Staff Note: Please discuss any Payware Add-on thoughts here.

I think that Martins doctrine is the right one.

Donations on a volunteer basis seem a good system to me. Freeware policy also allows access to all addons by people that doesn't have a bank account yet or are not authorized to use it online (or just have no money, even $10 can be a lot of money in some countries), that's a point.

And again, congratulations for your excellent work (while I personnally prefer very-realistic addons).

Wait, was this split off from another thread? Between the tone of the post and the staff note, it seems so, but I have no idea were to go for context. If there was an original thread, can I have a pointer to it?

 

[Tommy]

As I recall, this split off of the XR-2 Mk 2 thread. Someone mentioned that it was "payware quality", and was similar in quality to FSX add-on's getting $50 - $60 dollars.

Then some-one said something about "could you make payware add-ons for Orbiter?" and things sort of de-railed from there.

 

[garyw]

Wait, was this split off from another thread? Between the tone of the post and the staff note, it seems so, but I have no idea were to go for context. If there was an original thread, can I have a pointer to it?

Sure you can -> http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=490

On the subject of payware addons I personally I have no issues with a developer wanting to charge for an addon. Don't expect me to buy it though.

If we take Dans UMMU as an example - this is a great addon and certainly payware quality - it has bugs though and Dan hasn't been around for a while so the support for the addon is lacking. If you look at his payware FSPax you'll see some unhappy customers because it's payware and again, he hasn't been around.

So if a developer wants to charge - go for it but you'd be able to pay it up with a years support, free upgrades, etc.

 

[Pyromaniac605]

If you look at his payware FSPax you'll see some unhappy customers because it's payware and again, he hasn't been around.

Dan made FSPassengers? That Dan!?
I never knew it was the same Dan. :lol:
FSPassengers is the only add-on I've ever paid for for FSX, and probably will stay as the only add-on I've ever payed for for FSX.

On the subject of payware add-ons, if the license was changed so that add-on developers could charge, I might buy them, if they are high quality and not too expensive, otherwise I think it works fine the way it is.

 

[N_Molson]

Wait, was this split off from another thread? Between the tone of the post and the staff note, it seems so, but I have no idea were to go for context. If there was an original thread, can I have a pointer to it?

In fact when I posted that I thought "this subject could feed a whole new thread", so it's fine like this.

And DanS is an interesting example for sure. Think to Orbiter without OrbiterSound ! That's an essential add-on for which I would gladly throw a few $ from time to time. Provided there are updates, at least for each new Orbiter release.

And that point is essential to me :

My problem with donations are when the developer (or any content creator, outside the context of orbiter) asks for donations. Sticking a donate button somewhere, but without really promoting would be how I prefer it. If the product is free, than it is free, and that's that. If a user wishes to donate, that should be entirely on their own will, without quilt trips, explanations, or reading what's basically an ad.

I wouldn't say better. A "Donate" button on the first post of the Addon Developpement thread and in the author signature is fine.

Some transparency seems important too. I like how it is done on this forum. A counter like "this month I've collected $xyz" is a good idea, from my opinion.

 

[Codz]

Personally if I had the skill to make addons I would definately make them free. I simply believe that out of principle.

 

[Hielor]

I don't think the Orbiter community is large enough to make payware addons viable.

 

[RaR76]

Self-authored addons use the SDK & libraries, which are parts of Orbiter.



I rather see it as : "oh, this is an amazing add-on project, I enjoy it and would like to see updates or extensions to it. By giving a few bucks from time to time, I help by bringing an additional motivation to the author, that is more likely to release updates/extensions in the future. By offering some money, I allow him to spend more time to developpement, and speed up the process."

For me, it's a kind of friendly investment or participation.

Has any orbiter addon devs actually received donations? I never would imagined that people would actually donate for orbiter addons.

Any addons I have ever made for any game/sim, I figured it was for free and I would never get anything other than a "thank you" every now and then.

 

[insanity]

Orbiter is perhaps the most amazing piece of freeware I have ever come across. It is massive in scope, has realistic physics, and has some of the most talented people create addons for it. What would Orbiter be without Orbitersound, UMMU, all of the great Shuttle packages, Wideawake, IMFD, TransX, the XR series, UCGO, etc.....

The great thing about those (and many other) addons is that ostensibly the developers created them to enhance their experience with a wonderful piece of software and have been generous enough to share that with the community. Not for profit, but for furthering a labor of love.

It seems rather insulting to all of those who produce quality work for free to start asking users to pay for YOUR work. Even talking about the relative quality of your contribution in compared to others is sort of silly when you consider all of the talented people who give their time away to make Orbiter better. Not to mention that so many of our addons are dependent upon other addons.

To me, what is great about this software, this community, and our wonderful developers (to whom I am quite grateful to) is that they have made learning a really complicated subject so much fun. It's nice to see places on the net that exist to simply share a passion and inspire people. I'd hate to see this experience become monetized.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

Orbiter is perhaps the most amazing piece of freeware I have ever come across.

:ninja:

 

[Wishbone]

Converting to payware means having to write better docs... I hate writing docs, ergo I will not convert to payware. Q.E.D.

 

[Pyromaniac605]

What would Orbiter be without Orbitersound, UMMU, all of the great Shuttle packages, Wideawake, IMFD, TransX, the XR series, UCGO, etc.....

Orbiter 2005.

 

[agentgonzo]

No matter how good an addon is (vessel, MFD, spaceport, utilities) it will never compare to the amount of work that has gone into the Orbiter core. To charge for an addon when the entire Orbiter program is free is horrendously rude and an insult to the fantastic work that Martin has done for over a decade.