jinglesassy
New member
A 3-meters tsunami is incoming...
Maybe, at this point, the sea is the only power able to cool down the reactors ?
That was a few hours ago and it was a false alarm.
News Japan Earthquake, Tsunami, & Nuclear Disaster
- Thread starter Suzy
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That was a few hours ago and it was a false alarm.
River Crab
SpaceX Cheer Captain
According to NISA:
TEPCO reported that it was a hydrogen explosion at unit 3, and the containment vessel was not damaged, although they are still in the process of verifying the details.
NISA advises that anyone within at least 20km should take shelter.
Wind is currently calm, with a western wind in the upper atmosphere, and will become southwest.
There has been one personnel injury reported at Fukushima daiichi, they have been arranged to be transferred to Fukushima daini.
(None of this is really news, of course...)
TEPCO reported that it was a hydrogen explosion at unit 3, and the containment vessel was not damaged, although they are still in the process of verifying the details.
NISA advises that anyone within at least 20km should take shelter.
Wind is currently calm, with a western wind in the upper atmosphere, and will become southwest.
There has been one personnel injury reported at Fukushima daiichi, they have been arranged to be transferred to Fukushima daini.
(None of this is really news, of course...)
Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
Update on injuries (BBC log)
0729: Japan's government has confirmed 11 people were injured in the latest blast at the Fukushima plant's number three reactor. The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power, says the reactor container was not damaged by the blast.
0729: Japan's government has confirmed 11 people were injured in the latest blast at the Fukushima plant's number three reactor. The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power, says the reactor container was not damaged by the blast.
Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
Your thoughts on the Japanese catastrophe
O-F Staff Note: Posts moved here to main thread from 'Your thoughts on the Japanese catastrophe' thread.
There's already a thread on the ongoing news about the earthquake, tsunami, nuclear emergency and recovery efforts.
I'd like to use this thread to ask Orbiter-Forum users to explain their thoughts on how this has affected them, what they think about the handling of the emergency by the authorities, and any other thoughts that they have about this.
To kick off myself:
I was very impressed by the calm and disciplined response by the Japanese people. Of course they have many such earthquakes, and are well-drilled in emergency measures. They showed great self-control.
In the first day or so I was also impressed by the Japanese government response, with clear and informative briefings more or less every hour.
As time goes by I have a lot less confidence in their judgement. They seem to prefer to respond to public concern by whitewashing the seriousness of the event. For example, yesterday the PM Mr Kan said this was the worst catastrophe since WW2, and yet at the same time he decided to open the Stock Market for a normal day.
NHK the government-operated news agency and TV station has been particularly slow to reveal the situation. Foreign-based news organisations like the BBC, Reuters, NYT, RT and AFP are more agile and informative.
My greatest respect and admiration for the emergency workers, hoping to rescue people alive and recovering the dead, as well as those in the greatest danger, those working in the nuclear plants. Also foreign teams, I've heard of German and British teams, as well as the crew of the USS Ronald Reagan. No doubt there are others.
I'm highly distrustful of all these experts telling us that there's no need for concern. If I hear that "it's not another Chernobyl" one more time, I'll scream. Particularly duplicitous were those from the International Nuclear Association. On Friday I heard one saying that the redundant systems at Fukushima were all operational. He was either misinformed or just lying.
Today I heard a different INA spokesperson saying "everything that was supposed to happen, has happened." He didn't repeat the untruths about redundant systems all being operational, but his overall take on the story was deeply dishonest.
As a non-technical layperson I feel that our ignorance is being badly abused.
O-F Staff Note: Posts moved here to main thread from 'Your thoughts on the Japanese catastrophe' thread.
There's already a thread on the ongoing news about the earthquake, tsunami, nuclear emergency and recovery efforts.
I'd like to use this thread to ask Orbiter-Forum users to explain their thoughts on how this has affected them, what they think about the handling of the emergency by the authorities, and any other thoughts that they have about this.
To kick off myself:
I was very impressed by the calm and disciplined response by the Japanese people. Of course they have many such earthquakes, and are well-drilled in emergency measures. They showed great self-control.
In the first day or so I was also impressed by the Japanese government response, with clear and informative briefings more or less every hour.
As time goes by I have a lot less confidence in their judgement. They seem to prefer to respond to public concern by whitewashing the seriousness of the event. For example, yesterday the PM Mr Kan said this was the worst catastrophe since WW2, and yet at the same time he decided to open the Stock Market for a normal day.
NHK the government-operated news agency and TV station has been particularly slow to reveal the situation. Foreign-based news organisations like the BBC, Reuters, NYT, RT and AFP are more agile and informative.
My greatest respect and admiration for the emergency workers, hoping to rescue people alive and recovering the dead, as well as those in the greatest danger, those working in the nuclear plants. Also foreign teams, I've heard of German and British teams, as well as the crew of the USS Ronald Reagan. No doubt there are others.
I'm highly distrustful of all these experts telling us that there's no need for concern. If I hear that "it's not another Chernobyl" one more time, I'll scream. Particularly duplicitous were those from the International Nuclear Association. On Friday I heard one saying that the redundant systems at Fukushima were all operational. He was either misinformed or just lying.
Today I heard a different INA spokesperson saying "everything that was supposed to happen, has happened." He didn't repeat the untruths about redundant systems all being operational, but his overall take on the story was deeply dishonest.
As a non-technical layperson I feel that our ignorance is being badly abused.
Last edited by a moderator:
I agree with your comment. The more they say they are in full control, the more it seem that they are out of control.:facepalm:
I don't give it much of a thought, but now after that devastating earthquake, it seems irresponsible to build nuclear reactors at all in Japan. That big earthquake was expected. Like they say: "It is not a matter of if, but a matter of when the big one is coming. Well, it happened very sooner than every one expected.
Subduction earthquakes are very dangerous, and the whole of Japan's east coast is lying near subduction zones.
I think it is a warning for all countries that have nuclear reactors near earthquake prone areas. BE WARNED.
I understood that there was a volcano erupted in southern Japan last week, before the mag. 9 earthquake hits Japan. Was that not a warning that something big is coming?
Artlav
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As far as i understand, tectonic events are not that explicitly linked.
Artlav
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There is a mix of good and bad planning.
On the good side, they were largely ready, such low death toll and calm response is not what we used to see in disasters of this scale.
Never the less, they are not perfect. The power plants were not kept in a worst case scenario-proof state, and their design was not exactly perfect for the area.
As for the exact details of what is happening at the plants, my guess is to wait till it'll get into history books. Right now everyone says whatever they heard.
On the good side, they were largely ready, such low death toll and calm response is not what we used to see in disasters of this scale.
Never the less, they are not perfect. The power plants were not kept in a worst case scenario-proof state, and their design was not exactly perfect for the area.
As for the exact details of what is happening at the plants, my guess is to wait till it'll get into history books. Right now everyone says whatever they heard.
River Crab
SpaceX Cheer Captain
NISA:
It has been confirmed that the pressure inside the Fukushima daiichi reactor 3 containment vessel dropped, after the hydrogen explosion at 11:01 JST. They are considering making repairs to the containment vessel.
They are currently in the process of confirming the state of the cooling system.
TEPCO confirms 11 casualties from the hydrogen explosion at reactor 3 at 16:00.
It has been confirmed that the pressure inside the Fukushima daiichi reactor 3 containment vessel dropped, after the hydrogen explosion at 11:01 JST. They are considering making repairs to the containment vessel.
They are currently in the process of confirming the state of the cooling system.
TEPCO confirms 11 casualties from the hydrogen explosion at reactor 3 at 16:00.
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SiberianTiger
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They had been reporting 11 were wounded, so they've been killed in reality?
Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
The same containment vessel they confirmed was undamaged 2 hours ago.
River Crab
SpaceX Cheer Captain
Sorry, 11 casualties (負傷者). Seriously injured? I always thought that meant death... :facepalm:
TEPCO reported that it was undamaged even before they confirmed it, which is not looking too good for them...
TEPCO reported that it was undamaged even before they confirmed it, which is not looking too good for them...
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Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
Another thought... Where's the Emperor? Three days have gone by and the Head of State has yet to make an appearance to offer condolences.
The movie "The King's Speech" shows the morale impact of a monarch appearing to offer hope and solidarity in times of crisis. If a monarch can't even be bothered to do that, what on earth is he for?
The movie "The King's Speech" shows the morale impact of a monarch appearing to offer hope and solidarity in times of crisis. If a monarch can't even be bothered to do that, what on earth is he for?
Sky Captain
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Maybe by repairs they mean conecting some sort of cooling pipes to the reactor vessel to pump water inside. If the reactor vessel itself was split open the whole site would be so radioactive that it would be impossible to do any repairs there.
Anyway, the news regarding the status of reactors likely is so unreliable that they had to be taken with huge grain of salt.
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Tweets directly from USS Ronald Reagan: http://twitter.com/Gipper_76
SiberianTiger
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SiberianTiger
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Some very detailed plan of a nuclear facility running a BWR reactor, for reference:
http://www.nucleartourist.com/areas/areas2.htm
http://www.nucleartourist.com/areas/areas2.htm
Urwumpe
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I just feel reminded on one of my favorite German poems, because it again precisely describes how dangerous a false feeling of security can get and that you should never underestimate the ocean...
_______________________________________
In an ugly translation:
Today I traveled over Rungholt, the city sank 600 years ago.
Still the waves rage wild and annoyed, like back then when they destroyed the marches.
And the engine of the steamer shook, moaned,
out of the waters it shouted sinisterly and taunted:
Safety, white flood.
Separated by the north sea, the murder sea, from the dry land, lay the Frisian islands in peace,
And as witnesses of misanthropic rage surface island by island out of retreating flood.
The seagull squabbles on growing tidal flats, the seal sunbaths on sandy flats,
Safety, white flood.
In the middle of the ocean sleeps until this hour,
a monster deep below on the bottom.
Its head rests near Englands beaches,
Its tailfin plays at Brazils sand.
It draws its breath six hours into it,
and drives it six hours away from it,
Safety, white flood.
But once in every century, the gills unleash enormous masses of water,
Then the monster takes a deep breath, whips the waves and falls asleep again.
Many thousand people in the north land drown, many rich countries and cities sink,
Safety, white flood.
Rungholt is rich and becomes much richer, no corn fits even into the biggest granary,
Like in the prosperity period of the old Rome, jams here everyday the human stream.
The sedans carry Syrians and Nubians, with gold plating and fripperies in nose and ears.
Safety, white flood.
On all markets and all alleys, loud people and drunken masses,
they move every evening out on the dike: "We are safe of you, white flood, north sea pond"
And while they clench threateningly their fists,
the Kraken pulls silently its claws out of the mud.
The waters ebb, the birds rest, the gracious God walks soft-footed,
the moon follows calmly its tracks in the sky, smiling at the showy Rungholtian craze.
From Brazil shines to Norwegian reefs,
the sea like a resting steel, that got polished,
Safety, white flood
And everywhere peace on the sea and on the lands,
Suddenly, like the roar of a caged predator:
The monster turned over, breathed deep,
closed its eyes again and slept,
and rushing, black, long haired waves,
come flying like stampeding horses,
Safety, white flood.
A single cry, the city has sank
and hundred thousand people have drowned
Where yesterday was noise and laughter,
are only silent fishes on the next day.
Today I traveled over Rungholt,
the city sank 600 years ago.
Safety, white flood.
_______________________________________
Again, it has many parallels to todays events. A large technologically advanced nation, that thought it can protect themselves by technology from every danger that nature can throw at it, was devastated by nature just showing a bit more of its power.
_______________________________________
In an ugly translation:
Today I traveled over Rungholt, the city sank 600 years ago.
Still the waves rage wild and annoyed, like back then when they destroyed the marches.
And the engine of the steamer shook, moaned,
out of the waters it shouted sinisterly and taunted:
Safety, white flood.
Separated by the north sea, the murder sea, from the dry land, lay the Frisian islands in peace,
And as witnesses of misanthropic rage surface island by island out of retreating flood.
The seagull squabbles on growing tidal flats, the seal sunbaths on sandy flats,
Safety, white flood.
In the middle of the ocean sleeps until this hour,
a monster deep below on the bottom.
Its head rests near Englands beaches,
Its tailfin plays at Brazils sand.
It draws its breath six hours into it,
and drives it six hours away from it,
Safety, white flood.
But once in every century, the gills unleash enormous masses of water,
Then the monster takes a deep breath, whips the waves and falls asleep again.
Many thousand people in the north land drown, many rich countries and cities sink,
Safety, white flood.
Rungholt is rich and becomes much richer, no corn fits even into the biggest granary,
Like in the prosperity period of the old Rome, jams here everyday the human stream.
The sedans carry Syrians and Nubians, with gold plating and fripperies in nose and ears.
Safety, white flood.
On all markets and all alleys, loud people and drunken masses,
they move every evening out on the dike: "We are safe of you, white flood, north sea pond"
And while they clench threateningly their fists,
the Kraken pulls silently its claws out of the mud.
The waters ebb, the birds rest, the gracious God walks soft-footed,
the moon follows calmly its tracks in the sky, smiling at the showy Rungholtian craze.
From Brazil shines to Norwegian reefs,
the sea like a resting steel, that got polished,
Safety, white flood
And everywhere peace on the sea and on the lands,
Suddenly, like the roar of a caged predator:
The monster turned over, breathed deep,
closed its eyes again and slept,
and rushing, black, long haired waves,
come flying like stampeding horses,
Safety, white flood.
A single cry, the city has sank
and hundred thousand people have drowned
Where yesterday was noise and laughter,
are only silent fishes on the next day.
Today I traveled over Rungholt,
the city sank 600 years ago.
Safety, white flood.
_______________________________________
Again, it has many parallels to todays events. A large technologically advanced nation, that thought it can protect themselves by technology from every danger that nature can throw at it, was devastated by nature just showing a bit more of its power.
Last edited:
Sky Captain
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It was just said on BBC news that fuel rods of reactor No2 are fully exposed, if it is true then third meltdown is highly likely
SiberianTiger
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http://www.rian.ru/jpquake_effect/20110314/353755229.html
RIA Novosti is reporting at 11:07 UTC that the Fukushima-1 reactor #2 is completely dry of coolant.
RIA Novosti is reporting at 11:07 UTC that the Fukushima-1 reactor #2 is completely dry of coolant.
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Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
Objective and informative piece from BBC environment correspondent
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12726628
His summation of the state so far
---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
Reports from USS Ronald Reagan said that 17 crewmembers in three helicopters received a month's dose of background radiation.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor..._exposed_to_low_level_radiation_in_japan.html
According to Wikipedia
The worldwide average background dose for a human being is about 2.4 millisievert (mSv) per year
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation"]Background radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Which means they got about 0.2 mSv, a third of an X-ray procedure.
The twitter feed from the carrier's captain confirms the ship is moving further away from the zone.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12726628
His summation of the state so far
---------- Post added at 12:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
Reports from USS Ronald Reagan said that 17 crewmembers in three helicopters received a month's dose of background radiation.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor..._exposed_to_low_level_radiation_in_japan.html
According to Wikipedia
The worldwide average background dose for a human being is about 2.4 millisievert (mSv) per year
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Background_radiation"]Background radiation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
Which means they got about 0.2 mSv, a third of an X-ray procedure.
The twitter feed from the carrier's captain confirms the ship is moving further away from the zone.
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