Space Shuttle program stops, now what?

[garyw]

You do not see ion and plasma engine programs being scrapped, since they seem to be the future

If so, why has the NASA breakthrough propulsion physics department been closed?

It means no flights for some time. But in a time of economic constraints making the best use of money seems a must. I think that space shuttle program was a political thing. Shuttle existed to go to ISS and ISS existed so shuttle could have a destination. Beautiful birds, but what a waste of money!

Shuttle existed long before ISS. Only 33 of it's 130+ missions have been to ISS. Where would you put the money from shuttle? Health care? DoD? NASA's entire budget is some 0.8% of the total GDP of the USA.

If you attach a plasma engine to ISS, you could bump it up when needed, and also you could change orbit inclination to make it usable as a first stop for resupply/refuel for interplanetary trips. The good news is that ISS produces hydrogen as waste, and that's exactly what plasma engine needs as propellant.

Studies show that to get plasma working on ISS will require 200KW of power. That's the same as all four solar arrays at max power. What do you use for the lights?
Changing inclination will take decades and for what? It's no good as a fuel depot. Also to get a fuel depot operation you need to solve the issue of Hydrogen boil off.

 

[ar81]

If so, why has the NASA breakthrough propulsion physics department been closed?

VIDEO: NASA - A New Era of Innovation and Discovery

BBC: Daily View: Obama cancels moon mission

Reuters: Obama budget would cut NASA moon plan

Sally Ride: "The previous trajectory that NASA was on was
simply not sustainable".

What I see there tells me that even if it was closed, R&D goes on.

Shuttle existed long before ISS. Only 33 of it's 130+ missions have been to ISS. Where would you put the money from shuttle? Health care? DoD? NASA's entire budget is some 0.8% of the total GDP of the USA.

R&D of new technology to go to Mars.

Studies show that to get plasma working on ISS will require 200KW of power. That's the same as all four solar arrays at max power. What do you use for the lights?
Changing inclination will take decades and for what? It's no good as a fuel depot. Also to get a fuel depot operation you need to solve the issue of Hydrogen boil off.

If I am correct, plasma vessel should have it's own power source and its own fuel tanks. Designers of plasma vessel should take care of that to prevent boil off during a long trip.

 

[Urwumpe]

http://www.space-multimedia.nl.eu.o...a-of-innovation-and-discovery-&catid=1:latest
R&D of new technology to go to Mars.

Ok, and now tell the astounded public, how shall NASA develop stuff? In computer simulations, maybe using Orbiter?

 

[Ghostrider]

Ok, and now tell the astounded public, how shall NASA develop stuff? In computer simulations, maybe using Orbiter?

No, Orbiter would be too expensive. They'll use Lunar Lander and Asteroids.

 

[ar81]

Ok, and now tell the astounded public, how shall NASA develop stuff? In computer simulations, maybe using Orbiter?

Orbiter is free. Remaining NASA personnel could use spare time to make addons to make R&D affordable...:lol:
Human brain has huge processing power. You could use a powerful simulator that is called "imagination".

If we can't go to space, still James Cameron may go to the bottom of the ocean. We know less about the bottom of the ocean than we know about the surface of the moon. It is like space exploration, under extreme pressures...

 

[Urwumpe]

Human brain has huge processing power. You could use a powerful simulator that is called "imagination".

Yes. And now, there is a tiny story about the famous Aristotle, who deducted, by the full power of his human brain and by solid logic, that women have less teeth than men.

He didn't bother counting, because his logic was sound.

Just dreaming the time away is deducting by logic alone. Engineering is pure counting. You don't deduct more in engineering, than you measure. which is why engineering works, and dreaming doesn't.

 

[Star Voyager]

President Obama is due to visit KSC on 15th April and is expected to give a speech on his comittement to space flight.

There have been NASA protests going on lately, and the big one is expected when Obama comes (I think I'll join them). Here's one that took place not too long ago:

http://www.universetoday.com/2010/0...to-continue-constellation-and-extend-shuttle/

 

[Urwumpe]

There have been NASA protests going on lately, and the big one is expected when Obama comes (I think I'll join them). Here's one that took place not too long ago:

http://www.universetoday.com/2010/0...to-continue-constellation-and-extend-shuttle/

Why do these protests look like anti-communists calling their president a commie while protesting for installing communism in spaceflight...

 

[orbiterguy]

nasa are not going back to the moon and not going to mars with the constellation programe, they will have tp think up a cheap alternative to put man into space

 

[T.Neo]

We know less about the bottom of the ocean than we know about the surface of the moon. It is like space exploration, under extreme pressures...

A lot of the seafloor is actually far harder to survive on than the surface of Mars or the Moon, so...

which is why engineering works, and dreaming doesn't.

I manage to dream quite fine thanks, especially after a glass of warm milk...

 

[ar81]

Yes. And now, there is a tiny story about the famous Aristotle, who deducted, by the full power of his human brain and by solid logic, that women have less teeth than men.

He didn't bother counting, because his logic was sound.

Just dreaming the time away is deducting by logic alone. Engineering is pure counting. You don't deduct more in engineering, than you measure. which is why engineering works, and dreaming doesn't.

Yes, we can do the same with Mars, we may imagine Mars has less teeth...:lol:

Let's call this model Aristotle simulation. There are other more advanced simulation models implemented by drug addicts who fly without wings...:rofl:

Or we may just imagine we are already there in Mars, so we save ourselves the engineering bother of flying to Mars...:tiphat::rofl:

 

[Star Voyager]

Why do these protests look like anti-communists calling their president a commie while protesting for installing communism in spaceflight...

Their trying to save their jobs so the Cape doesn't fail as a community. The more jobs lost there, the less productive it will be. The initial jobloss because of the end of the Shuttle was going to be bad. So the cancellation of Constellation just made it worse with even more layoffs.

 

[insanity]

Their trying to save their jobs so the Cape doesn't fail as a community. The more jobs lost there, the less productive it will be. The initial jobloss because of the end of the Shuttle was going to be bad. So the cancellation of Constellation just made it worse with even more layoffs.

The point was why do the people who depend on the government to protect their job complain that the government is communist. They want it both ways, a job (with a paycheck signed by Uncle Sam) and no federal spending in areas that don't impact their lives.

 

[Urwumpe]

Their trying to save their jobs so the Cape doesn't fail as a community. The more jobs lost there, the less productive it will be. The initial jobloss because of the end of the Shuttle was going to be bad. So the cancellation of Constellation just made it worse with even more layoffs.

Yes. And now Obama is guilty and has the responsibility to ensure that all spaceflight engineers, regardless of their skills and performance, get a job guarantee?

There are some questions that such an argumentation leaves open:

• if the infrastructure at this place is so optimal for a spaceflight industry, where is it? Aside of USA?
• What had the United Space Alliance to offer for other customers than NASA?
• Why don't other companies fight hard salary battles around the NSTS engineers?
• How many engineers had been just employed because of proportions in politics?
• How many Shuttle successor programs should be failing, before the buck arrives at the people who had been involved?

I don't believe in the workers there being only the poor victims of bad politics. I believe they all did their own share of the fail. Maybe often for keeping their jobs, resulting in needed changes not happening earlier, when the pain would have been smaller.

The opposite of good is not evil, but well-intentioned.

 

[ar81]

In the beginning there was gravity, man wanted to defeat gravity and discovered that he needed money, so he created money.

But later he shall discover that too little money would underfund his struggle to defeat gravity, and too much would cause deficit, debt and risk of hyperinflation.

And then humanity was doomed to be grounded by the forces of the universe: Gravity and money.

Later man discovered that money was a social construct, and then man created Orbiter so humanity could fly without the worry of defeating gravity or the limitations of money.

 

[Urwumpe]

Later man discovered that money was a social construct, and then man created Orbiter so humanity could fly without the worry of defeating gravity or the limitations of money.

I hope you send food packages to martins, so his lack of social constructs for coding Orbiter impairing his access to other social constructs does not affect his biological constructs.

Of course, when communism is finally reached, who needs a body...

 

[ar81]

I hope you send food packages to martins, so his lack of social constructs for coding Orbiter impairing his access to other social constructs does not affect his biological constructs.

Of course, when communism is finally reached, who needs a body...

Ah, youare talking about "underfunding his struggle to defeat gravity"...:thumbup:

 

[Star Voyager]

The Cocoa Beach Chamber of Commerce is going to protest in D.C. on May 17-20:

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20100405/NEWS02/4050305/1007/NEWS02/Brevard%20group%20takes%20space-industry%20fight%20to%20D.C.?GID=F84xuaVB6AHYRKMtJl65VOMUnRSVIPOhJkCaL4ghGGU%3D