Tehran on fire

[doggie015]

It is sure as hell rigged. The ratio between the votes was constant for all districts.

http://tehranbureau.com/2009/06/13/faulty-election-data/

They have discovered us! The site has been taken down. Probably the Iranian authorities trying to cover their

 

[Hielor]

They have discovered us! The site has been taken down. Probably the Iranian authorities trying to cover their

Site's still there...

 

[simonpro]

It is sure as hell rigged. The ratio between the votes was constant for all districts.

http://tehranbureau.com/2009/06/13/faulty-election-data/

My Arabic isn't great, but their figures don't quite add up to what is written on their source. I've only crunched the numbers for the first two points, number 1 is incorrect, number 2 is correct.
Dare I say that the Tehran Bureau (not exactly an unbiased source at the best of times) is engaging in precisely the same 'art' that it's accusing the President of doing

 

[Moonwalker]

Ah, the Middle East again. Why doesn't it surprise me at all...

 

[bujin]

Christopher Hitchens wades in on the Iran "elections":

http://www.slate.com/id/2220520/

 

[Eagle]

But people make and enforce rules. Taking some of them and setting them apart from the other people doesn't make them any less dumb-acting.

If anything, it makes a sort of "supercriminal", with special immunities to laws they impose on the rest of us.

That reminds me of a few passages in Dune where they talk about the need of the people to retain a certain sense of individuality or they would descend into a mob.

Of course if you read Dune, the peoples did lose their individuality from both the nearly senseless oppression by Raban, and the fervor of devotion to Mua'Dib. The result of course was Jihad.

Kinda interesting, we need a little bit of group identity to remain cohesive, but individualism to keep ourselves in check. Maybe there's something special about having an individualist group identity.

 

[Jarvitä]

More images:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html

-Foreign journalists now require express permissions to leave their lodgings
-Army has reportedly broken it's neutrality and entered Teheran
-Standoff between large groups of Ahmedinejad and Mousavi supporters

edit: Surprisingly lacking cover from western media. Still,

http://www.economist.com/world/mide...ry.cfm?story_id=13851588&source=features_box2
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124512154039317887.html#mod=article-outset-box
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8103577.stm

 

[Andy44]

Surprisingly lacking cover from western media.

Doesn't surprise me. The media in the US is terrible at reporting world events. It tends to parrot whatever the government feeds it. If you really want to know what's going on you have to look around the internet.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Doesn't surprise me. The media in the US is terrible at reporting world events. It tends to parrot whatever the government feeds it. If you really want to know what's going on you have to look around the internet.

It's just because the events fail to fit the pattern of the expected news from Iran - and the western media just not completely sure how to value the events and the actors.

 

[SiberianTiger]

It looks like they are using special forces to crush the rebellion that's going on.

http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/2009/06/minute-by-minute-with-revolution.html

There were some comments from a Twitter channel recently...

Riot Police in Tehran Using Tear Gas on Thousands

In Khosh Street police is attacking people w/ batons & pepper spray trying 2 disperse ppl; shots heard

they r beating everyone up, men, women, kids, the old, the chadories, basically any living creature outside now

Mousavi is at head of Jayhoon ave. giving a speech

Two reports coming from Tehran about helicopters pouring boiling water on protesters

Chemical warfare?Evidently not boiling water but something else being sparyed from helicopters.

if you could not get to rally today, go to roof, shout Allah Akbar now so those being beated can hear u.

For the 60-100 mill $ Hezbolla pays Khamenei by sending troops that can beat up the Iranians! Thank you Khamenei!!

european embassies r open for injured, bring them there !!!

This is street fighting. They are chanting death to the dictator now, no slogans about votes anymore

http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE55F54520090620

Opposition leader Mirhossein Mousavi said he was "ready for martyrdom," according to an ally, in leading protests that have shaken the Islamic Republic and brought warnings of bloodshed from Iran's Supreme Leader

At the same time...

http://www.today.az/news/politics/53182.htmlhttp://www.today.az/news/politics/53182.html

US president Barack Obama does not see any special differences between President of Iran, conservator Mahmud Ahmadinejad and Reformer candidate Mir Hussein Musavi, who lost the presidential elections in Iran, he said in his interview with CNBC.

According to Obama, "difference between Ahmadinejad and Musavi in the sense of their real political approaches can be not so significant, as it has been demonstrated".

"Anyway, we will deal with the Iranian regime, which was historically hostile towards the United States", added he.

 

[willy88]

I think I smell a revolution in the distance.

 

[Urwumpe]

I smell trouble.

 

[doggie015]

I sense a disturbance in the force...

 

[Unstung]

My Arabic isn't great,

The Persian language is Farsi, slightly different from Arabic which has vowels. It's still possible to read some Farsi with an Arabic background, I believe.

Anyways, I'd be glad if the protest did something - especially a revolution in the opposite direction of the one that forced the Shah to leave.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Anyways, I'd be glad if the protest did something - especially a revolution in the opposite direction of the one that forced the Shah to leave.

Getting the Shah back? I think it's not a very good idea. That guy was overthrown not without a cause, too.

 

[Andy44]

The Shah? Seriously? He was a brutal monarchist dictator installed by the CIA after the Iranians elected the "wrong" candidate in 1953. This foolish meddling by the US led directly to the Islamic revolution of 1979 and to the current regime, complete with Iranian hatred for the US. How owuld you feel if Iran was fixing your elections and installing a puppet dictator in your country?

As for Obama, he should learn from history and just shut up. No US official has any credibility on Iran's internal matters, nor even the slightest idea what's going on other than the bits and pieces they see on CNN. No intel, no idea, no clue. Just a half century of misperceptions and poor decisions.

 

[Urwumpe]

As for Obama, he should learn from history and just shut up. No US official has any credibility on Iran's internal matters, nor even the slightest idea what's going on other than the bits and pieces they see on CNN. No intel, no idea, no clue. Just a half century of misperceptions and poor decisions.

Not without exceptions though. Obamas New Years Message to the Iranian people created more political momentum than the whole US foreign politics before. While the official channels tried to keep this message secret, the internet affinity of the Iranians made it very popular. It is even possible that this message had an additional motivating effect on the protesters in Iran, but this would maybe already overestimate the message. If it happens, Obama's speech did sure not tear down the new Shah.

The support for the theocracy in Iran is not as strong as many people believe, most people are Iranian patriots though. The Ayatollah and the revolutionary guards have given the people many reasons to complain, but until today, there was never a really unified protest movement - protests of such a scale had not been seen since the protests before the islamic revolution. Usually, you just had student protests with limited effect. This time, you already had a much stronger expectation on democracy before the election.

 

[Andy44]

There is a lot of pressure on Obama from grandstanding blowhard politicians in the US to make a statement and take a side. Obama needs to avoid this, of course.

If he is seen to publicly side with the protesters, the government side will claim the protest is a US conspiracy.

What's worse, there is some reason to believe that the election results were not rigged after all. In any case, the US is in no position to say one way or the other.

Then there are the neocons, who hope that Achmedinijad comes out on top, so they can continue to make a case for starting another war. Those guys never learn, and they never stop looking for new people to kill.

Obama needs to stay cool and reserve his opinion until Iran resolves this.

 

[tl8]

^

I think you are correct, it is important that Iran sorts this out and the rest of the world only helps when asked too (which isn't likely).

I am not sure if the result is rigged or not but it might be beneficial to get some independent body to review the ballot result, however this should be asked for by Iran and not forced upon Iran

 

[Urwumpe]

Also, the question is: Do the Iranians really want our help? And if how should this help look like? I think, what is needed is some silent pressure. Not more.