OS WARS MEGA THREAD (Now debating proprietary vs. open-source!)

[garyw]

I had a play with the latest Symbian Belle phone. The interface is quite slick and very responsive. It was obviously a clone of what apple have been doing for years but overall I liked.

As for Metro in winwo.... well, I hate to say it but I had a hand in testing it and I hate it, hate it, hate it.

what I hate the most is this:

notice the image on the right? how the world 'people' just doesn't quite fit on the screen? I was told that it was 'chic' - to me it just looks like that used a font that was too large and this repeats throughout the OS. Words going off the right of the screen because they can't format it properly so you have to scroll right just to read the damn thing.

horrible and ugly.

Windows 8 - metro on a laptop didn't look too bad, a lot of the services require a windows live account or some other stupid limitation but overall it worked quite well.

 

[Urwumpe]

The problem is, all the apps want to know the location. The location is acquired over the internet. The internet was defaulted to WAP at something like $1 per 4Kb.
The phone in question belonged to my brother's wife, and ate half-a-whale of money before she got it to me for decontamination.

So, it is a detail problem - though I have to say at this point, that location-based services are a major aspect of smartphones, that differ them from stationary computers.

That the application wants to dial home and tell the producer where you are is, IMHO in 99% of all cases, plain intrusion into privacy, instead of offering you are valid service. For newly installed apps, it is easy to check which permissions they want (The number of permissions is, why I won't install a Facebook App... I would have to be crazy.)

Also: You should have a proper internet connection for using smartphones. I am currently at 62 MB per week:

16 MB Internet browser
10 MB Google Play Store (software updates!)
7.5 MB Google Maps
7 MB Jappy (local German Social network, with some emphasis on privacy)
7 MB Tagesschau App (Useful)
4.5 MB Google+
3 MB Android OS
1.8 MB Skype

Nothing that I would call extraordinary. But yes, if you only use WAP like connection prices, you will be poor instantly.

 

[garyw]

Also: You should have a proper internet connection for using smartphones. I am currently at 62 MB per week:

That's the whole point of smartphones, always connected, able to access a variety of services and utilities all while draining your battery.

 

[Urwumpe]

That's the whole point of smartphones, always connected, able to access a variety of services and utilities all while draining your battery.

Was never different... but at least now, you get the computing power of a small laptop in your hand. My Quadcore mobile from 2012 is way more powerful in terms of computing than my single-core desktop computer from 2004. And this computer only ran for 10 minutes by the power of my massive UPS.

Actually, I can get about 40 hours of battery by running it in power-saving mode, while using it... a lot more by not using it.

My old windows mobile phone ran for 4 days by battery power, as long as you did not do anything beyond SMS and a short phone call.

 

[Artlav]

notice the image on the right?

That looks like exactly the phone i'm talking about.
I've noticed words not fitting in, but thought it was some sort of design gimmick or expecting different orientation.

Nothing that I would call extraordinary. But yes, if you only use WAP like connection prices, you will be poor instantly.

That's why there should be clear controls to turn it all off.
My HTC 4G with older Windows CE is actually smart enough to show a warning about being-in-roaming-prices-can-be-bad when i turn on the data connection abroad.

That Nokia, however, does not even have that off switch.
And, it's sold with the most expensive defaults.

May not even be Microsoft's fault - they just give the OS and SDK, no?

My Quadcore mobile from 2012 is way more powerful in terms of computing than my single-core desktop computer from 2004. And this computer only ran for 10 minutes by the power of my massive UPS.

That's nothing. Back in MSU i seen a massive soviet vintage mainframe taking half a room and needing separate power wiring that looked like it's pumping dozens of kilowatts in.
20Mhz, 64 Mb RAM, "floppies" the size of a truck tire, no internet connectivity.

Technology marches on, no need to be surprised by having a dozen old mainframes in your pocket.

 

[Urwumpe]

May not even be Microsoft's fault - they just give the OS and SDK, no?

I think resource management is job of the OS. That means also enabling the owner (not always the user) to control the availability of a resource.

But how an application makes use of this resource... that is another topic. You should be able to whitelist applications (personal firewall) ... but how whitelisted applications make use of the resources, that is another topic.

I think my current location should only be transmitted to a server, if this is without alternative or by manual action of me. And I see little reason, why my position should be easier to be deducted than by datamining my map requests.

 

[Eccentrus]

well, since we're talking about smartphones, I'm fairly satisfied with my Nokia X6, can hold up for two days even when playing music when I'm off my computer, and it still does that even if I'm browsing some news now and then, I think that Symbian is actually a fairly efficient software when it comes to functionality/juice, and Blackberry is the worst that I have ever owned, don't know about apple or Windows Phone though, haven't got the chance to have my hands on them, and a Blackberry (CDMA) and a Nokia is enough to get me going for now.

 

[jedidia]

notice the image on the right? how the world 'people' just doesn't quite fit on the screen? I was told that it was 'chic'

The sad thing is that most probably there's one manager up the lather who doesn't know jack about design that considers it chic, and a host of designers eating their hats while being forced to implement the crap...

 

[Hielor]

You can't tell that the word is "people" when half of one letter is cut off?

Part of the point of that design, I think, is to hint to the user that "there's more over to the right"--swiping to the right gives you another menu with more options, etc. If you just had "people" fitting entirely within the region, new users weren't aware that there was more stuff they could do by swiping to the right.

 

[Unstung]

BBC: "Valve boss Gabe Newell calls Windows 8 a 'catastrophe'"
IGN: "Gabe Newell: 'Windows 8 Is Kind of a Catastrophe'"

As Apple paves the way for closed-platform hardware and software development, Newell sees other companies, namely Microsoft, picking up on this trend. Tightening development restrictions could mean either hard times for PC game designers or a shift away from the PC altogether.

The Gaben has spoken. I'd rather stick to Windows 7 at this point.

 

[jedidia]

Why would microsoft even do that? it's the most significant advantage they have in the game. Do they really want to loose everyone to linux they haven't lost yet?

 

[Rtyh-12]

Windows 8 comes with both a Metro interface and a desktop tile on the Metro start screen. When I tried Consumer Preview on my desktop, it worked well enough. The Start screen was pretty intuitive, but it doesn't have that Apple simplicity (or even Windows 7). But I liked it after I got used to it. Except, of course, that there weren't really any useful apps. But that will change when the final version will be released. Internet Explorer 10 on Metro, though, was surprisingly good, I loved the way it is completely full screen, with absolutely no interface. Figuring out how to show it was a bit hard, though :facepalm:

In short: Metro was pretty good, some parts were awesome, but it could use some work overall.

By the way (couldn't resist)

Can you turn Metro off? Or is that like saying 'can you turn Unity off' in Ubuntu?

Turning Unity off is as simple as going to the Software Center and installing a different desktop environment.

 

[Hielor]

Why would microsoft even do that? it's the most significant advantage they have in the game. Do they really want to loose everyone to linux they haven't lost yet?

Because the solid, integrated end-to-end scenarios are what people want on a tablet. People don't want to need to download and run an installer that ends up requiring them to go find the Visual C++ 2008 Enterprise Edition R2 SP3 redistributable. They want to open the app store, find what they want, click a button, and have it installed. Smaller-scale developers also like the convenience of being able to monetize their creations without needing to set up their own secure payment and delivery systems.

It's also important to remember that (with the exception of ARM devices), you can still run everything on Win8 that you could run on Win7. It just won't be able to get delivered through the inbox app store (which Steam doesn't particularly care about anyway), and it won't be able to run in the metro experience (which doesn't matter for full screen games anyway). They'll still run just as well as Win7, they just won't get any of the new Win8 functionality.

Occasionally required disclaimer: I work for Microsoft, and in fact have been using Win8 on a regular basis since development started, since I'm on the Windows team.

 

[Eccentrus]

snip

you work for Microsoft!? Now that explains a lot of things, including your so-called "over-compensation" :lol:

 

[Spacethingy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19108952

Instead of Metro, Microsoft has told developers to simply refer to the blocky display as a "Windows 8 style UI" for the time being.

Hmmmm... Not the snappiest of names... :lol:

 

[Screamer7]

Windows 8

O-F Staff Note: these posts moved here from the 'Windows 8' thread.

I want to know how many Orbiter fans had upgrade to Windows 8 and what are the general experience with Windows 8 are.
I bought a new PC and it come with Windows 8 installed.
My general feeling is a bit of confusing and a totally new experience from Windows 7.
But the more I use it the more I like it.

 

[Rtyh-12]

I did upgrade to Windows 8. However, I had prepared myself by reading a lot about it, and I had also run the Consumer Preview on my old PC, so I had a pretty good idea on what to expect.

The first thing you notice is obviously the new Start Screen. The first time you try to use it, it's quite weird, but I soon got accustomed to it.

The majority of preinstalled Modern UI apps aren't particularly useful, but Internet Explorer 10 might be the first version of IE worth using.

The People app is also nifty, it can use more accounts at once (for example, I set it to use my Facebook and Twitter accounts) and display all their notifications in one place. You may or may not like that - I found it useful.

Apps can also display data on their Start Screen tiles (which are called live tiles when they are set to update themselves). For example, the Weather tile shows the current weather and the Calendar tile shows the current date (well, I guess these two are obvious). Sadly, the People tile doesn't show updates, instead it displays a totally useless set of others' account pictures.

The Windows Store is quite new and there aren't nearly as many apps as on the iTunes store or iOS' App Store. The quality of the apps is lower as well. However, the majority of them is free, and there are a few good apps, too. I'm sure that, once more developers start making Windows 8 apps, this will change and there will be many more quality apps.

Another of the more useful apps is the Desktop, which isn't center stage anymore but you can still access it as a tile on the Start Screen. When you open it for the first time, you're greeted by your previous desktop, just as you'd expect. One of the things you'll notice is that Aero is gone, being replaced by a flat, Modern UI-esque theme. (oddly enough, the taskbar is still transparent, albeit with no blur). Again, you may like or dislike this change.

The desktop has been improved as well. There's a new task manager, which is much easier to use in the simple view, and is more powerful in the advanced view. File Explorer (the new Windows Explorer) uses the Ribbon interface, and a lot of the dialogs have been upgraded (for example, the Copy/Cut/Paste dialogs show a graph of the operation's speed and they allow you to pause it and resume it later).

The whole thing integrates nicely with your Microsoft account. You can sign in with it, and it can sync your Modern UI settings along your different computers. If you prefer, you can use a local account, but nothing will be synced and you won't be able to download Windows Store apps. You can, however, change to a Microsoft account at any time.

Most of your desktop applications will work on Windows 8 as well. Orbiter runs flawlessly. The OS boots up really quickly as well (to give you an idea, I used to put my PC to sleep so it would start faster. Now I shut it down, since booting is quicker than resuming from sleep). It's true that it's not exactly a 'complete' shutdown since they hibernate the Windows core now, but does it really matter?

tl;dr: In my opinion, Windows 8 is worth the $15 dollars they charge you for upgrading. While it does have some issues, there's nothing too serious, and I'd certainly recommend it.



One more thing. I have an Nvidia graphics card and I had some problems with the Modern UI at first: blurry text, black bands... If you face the same problem, just reset your graphics card's settings and it will be fixed.

 

[garyw]

I'm still using the preview edition on this laptop. So far it has worked exceptionally well and I'm very pleased with it.

Actually, you can read my blog article on it here (plug, plug!)

 

[Izack]

File Explorer (the new Windows Explorer) uses the Ribbon interface, and a lot of the dialogs have been upgraded (for example, the Copy/Cut/Paste dialogs show a graph of the operation's speed and they allow you to pause it and resume it later).

I wonder what the usefulness of that is? How often does a copy/paste operation take longer than a few milliseconds? Do you copy hundreds of megabytes on a regular basis?

Anyway...

I've meddled a bit with Windows 8, but haven't installed it on my own computer, following the philospophy "don't upgrade if you can avoid it, or unless your current system stops working for you." Windows 8 is new and untested. My experience with it has been great, but problems are sure to pop up, just like with every other new OS release. I'm sure there will be a service pack in the coming months, and 8 will become more stable. Still, the only problem I encountered was my cursor disappearing on occasion, which is incredibly irritating.

For now at least, I'll be remaining with Windows 7. Windows 8 is more suited to people who do a lot of web browsing and fiddly app stuff, and I'm content with 7's UI/Start menu (press windows key ->type program name -> Enter -> Instant program) and stability/compatibility with everything I use. I don't need anything more from my OS for the time being.

 

[Rtyh-12]

I wonder what the usefulness of that is? How often does a copy/paste operation take longer than a few milliseconds? Do you copy hundreds of megabytes on a regular basis?

Well, honestly, they sometimes do; unpacking the XR-2 for example does take more than a few milliseconds. But I suppose you're right, it's not particularly useful. Though it's good to know that you can do it if you really need to...

...and I'm content with 7's UI/Start menu (press windows key ->type program name -> Enter -> Instant program)...

Actually, that works just as well in Windows 8. Granted, you're using the Start Screen instead of the Start Menu, but it doesn't make any difference if you're using the keyboard anyway.

You bring up a valid point about not upgrading unless required, however, in my experience, Windows 8 has been almost perfectly stable, save from some booting problems (and I think my computer's the cause there, not the OS).