Project WIN Ascension Ultra BETA test thread

wehaveaproblem

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Uh... why has the island shrunk?!

Thanks and well done guys for keeping this going! I'll give this a go. :cheers:

Aye, as face said, the AU mesh is much more accurately scaled to RL. The original WIN uses surface tiles so there was some fudging done with the scale for ease of tiling textures. Interesting seeing them side by side, or rather on top of each other, like that though, really illustrates the point well.
 

PhantomCruiser

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Took the stock DG for a drive around the place. The "follow-me" style taxiway lights are pretty cool. And the whole "request permission for launch" from start to finish was pretty cool.
Taxi-here, hold here, do this, taxi over here, do some more stuff, load passengers, top off fuel tanks, etc. Really cool, really cool.

Can't wait to see what some of the UCGO geniuses do with support vehicles (trucks, forklifts, etc). The multiplayer group too. This is going to be epic.
 

Face

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For those who want to try out the base with OVP, I have (sort of) fixed most of the troubles. You can get that 0.4.1 release from the repo now.

I'm not really happy with how I've solved the "ground clipping" of beacons (simply raised the ground level beacons up in the air) and the tarmac flickering (again simply raised the line mesh above the tarmac mesh), but at least crashes should be gone, and transparency is getting there.

Perhaps a designer can comment on those issues...
 

PeterRoss

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OK, now it's working wth D3D9. Everything looks cool. I've got one CTD at fuel hold, but it could've been caused by anything, wasn't able to reproduce it afterwards anyway.

Err, I can swear that when I requested launch I've heard something like 'Yo, wassup, my man' in ATC chatter :lol:

And I'm getting this in Orbiter.log, although I guess it's not a big deal:

Code:
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING: Obsolete API function used: oapiBlt
Colour key argument not supported by graphics client
---------------------------------------------------------------
 
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Face

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Err, I can swear that when I requested launch I've heard something like 'Yo, wassup, my man' in ATC chatter :lol:

:lol: Yes, those are the "jovial slang" texts I was referring to. The current chatter implementation allows for multiple entries for each transition message. It gets selected randomly. Open the AscensionUltra.cfg and search for "Checklist0_0" entry. The chatter is fully customizable, you can enter whatever text you like.

And I'm getting this in Orbiter.log, although I guess it's not a big deal:

Code:
---------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WARNING: Obsolete API function used: oapiBlt
Colour key argument not supported by graphics client
---------------------------------------------------------------

Are you sure that this is not from another addon? I don't have a single oapiBlt-call in the code base.
 

wehaveaproblem

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Err, I can swear that when I requested launch I've heard something like 'Yo, wassup, my man' in ATC chatter :lol:
Ha yeah, And there was me fretting because some of my radio chatter syntax wasn't 100% correct... This is just like face and his naming policies ;)

The chatter text is something I want to edit ASAP, but as face says, it's completely moddable by users thanks to face's cfg file system. Did we document that, face?
 

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So far I've not encountered any bugs, more serious than a D3D9 issue with the base flickering. I think it has been mentioned, its got something to do with local light sources I think.

Awesome none the less. :salute:

The only suggestion I have is. Is it possible to sort the crew roster into the ummu's current location first with an option to switch to the full list? It gets quite a hand full when sorting through 25-30 crew trying to remember where they are and if they are the one you want to move.
 

Face

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So far I've not encountered any bugs, more serious than a D3D9 issue with the base flickering. I think it has been mentioned, its got something to do with local light sources I think.

If you mean the flickering of the tarmac signs and lines, I think those are due to 2 meshes overlapping: tarmac and line meshes. I managed to reduce the flickering a bit by means of raising the line mesh some centimeters over the tarmac one, but that solution obviously has its limitations.

I guess the best solution is to merge the meshes.

Is it possible to sort the crew roster into the ummu's current location first with an option to switch to the full list?

Please elaborate that a bit. What do you mean with the UMmu's current location? Do you mean to reduce the list to the last transfer/EVA room?
 

Face

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I'm trying to think why I never did that in the first place, I'm sure it had something to do with materials in msh files, or LoD, or something...

For LoD, I couldn't easily do that on base meshes anyway. Well... I could hack it of course, but that would be using unmaintainium :lol:
 

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Please elaborate that a bit. What do you mean with the UMmu's current location? Do you mean to reduce the list to the last transfer/EVA room?

I was thinking, after selecting the roster to bring up a list of building/rooms where ummu's are stored (maybe with some indication of how many are stored in each), then selecting that to see the names in that room.

Roster > Rooms > Names

Its just a suggestion, I think it would improve ease of use with large crews.
 

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SUGGESTIONS TO IMPROVE THE LOOK OF ASCENSION ULTRA

This is a very wonderful project. I've had an eye on it for a very long time, and I've been using the old version until now. I just downloaded the ultra a few days ago, and all I can say is WOW!!!

Since this is open BETA, and we are supposed to make contributions, I have some observations regarding the lighting colors and runway markings. These are my opinions based on real life, but no deal breakers. The Space-/Airport would still be awesome without my suggestions, so feel free to ignore it if you think I'm too particular (I mean the developers), but that's one of the things that set your work apart, and I believe they're easy to accomplish. I also know that this is a WIP, so if there are already plans in place to adjust them, then ignore this post. Here are the observations:

1. LIGHTING COLORS (This only refers to the basic rwy & txwy lights, and not the guidance ones specific to Wideawake):

a) I noticed that the Runway threshold and runway end lights are blue. The Runway threshold lights should be green instead of blue, and the runway end lights should be red. The green color is more or less the same color as a green traffic light, just like you have them already at KSC in Orbiter. Also, since RWY 13L/31R is wide enough, it should have the touchdown zone lights (sets of 3 lights on either side of the centerline, that run from the threshold to around 3,000ft/900m), and those should be red before the threshold, and white after, stopping where the painted touchdown zones stop. They should only be visible from the correct side (green side). So, depending on what side of the threshold you are, the threshold/end lights should be either green or red and not blue.

runway lights 2.jpg

runway lights.jpg

b) Taxiway lights should be blue on the sides and if the taxiways are wide enough (the ones at Wideawake are, of course), then there should also be green lights on the centerline of the taxiways, just like you have them already, but the blue ones are never absent. If anything, it's the green ones that are absent on very narrow taxiways.

c) Also, although the centerline lights of a runway are white, they start alternating white and red after about less than two-thirds of the runway (my estimate) and then toward the end only red leading all the way to the runway end, forming a red 'T' with the runway end lights. The sidelines also turn to yellow at about halfway beyond where the center lights turn to alternate white/red.



d) Eliminate the 2 sets of red lights before the runways, discard one set completely, and place the other one on the last taxiway stop before making a turn onto each runway. Stretch the runways at both ends until the very end. There is no need for displaced thresholds. Displaced thresholds are put in place because of obstacles that aircraft on final approach might collide with, so they displace the runway beginning, moving it forward for landing aircraft, while allowing an aircraft taking off to use the entire length of the runway. Since there are no buildings or mountains on either end of both runways, let the runway thresholds/ends be at the very beginning/end to maximize the runway length.

No displaced thresholds.jpg


2 RUNWAY MARKINGS:

a) The runway sidelines should be white like the centerline, and should be thicker than the taxiway lines. The centerlines should be equally as thick. Makes the runway to stand out.

b) The threshold markers (bars immediately after the threshold) should be quite longer than they currently are, about double the hight of the runway number. Use KSC as reference (not orbiter KSC, but the one on Google Maps. Zoom in on the runway until you can see the tiles. You'll notice that the threshold bars take up to 7.5 tiles in length (height?) while the number takes about 4. The landing zone markers are also 4 tiles long.

c) there should be a solid line (about 4x thicker than the thick sidelines (~8x the weight of the taxi lines)

KSC RWY 33 THRESHOLD MARKERS (7.5 TILES).jpg

d) The touchdown zone markers are arranged thus:
In pairs (one on each side of the centerline) of "III, III, II, II, I, I" on each side, at 500-foot (150-meter) intervals (measuring from the bottom, not the top) starting from the solid Runway beginning line for a total of 6,000 feet or 900 meters beginning from the solid Runway begin/end line. The second III is replaced by the huge 'aimpoint' bar, which is the same length with the threshold markers (7.5 tiles) (Usually it's either the second "III" bars or the first "II" bars that get replaced with the 'aimpoint' bar, but for the space centers it's the first "III").

SPACING.jpg

runway_aim_touchdown_markings.png

e) Finally, the landing zone bars should be right halfway between the sidelines and the centerline on the wider RWY 13L/31R, and closer to the sidelines on the narrower RWY 13R/31L (judging with the "III" bars). AT the moment, they are too close to the center.

I hope I haven't bored anyone to death already.
 

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Smasher77th

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Runway end lights:

RUNWAY END LIGHTS.jpg


And let's not forget the VASI and PAPI (but you guys knew that already):

VASI - PAPI.jpg
 

Face

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Thanks for the feedback, Smasher!

I must admit that this is quite a lot to process, and I don't really know where (and when) to start, so I have a request: could you try that out with the configuration file and send a patch?

Foreseeing beacon discussions, we've put all of AU's beacon definitions into an INI-like format inside the /Config/Vessels/AscensionUltra.cfg file. There you can add/remove beacon arrays, change positions, manipulate color and size as well as strobe and/or animation values, all without the need to recompile the thing. The format of the various keywords is described in comments in there, too.

One thing we did not implement is directional color change, though.

regards,
Face
 

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Unfortunately, I don't know anything on coding or programming (I'm so willing to learn, if anyone can teach me, but here's a suggestion:

For the lighting, just copy the lights on KSC, or even the old Wideawake. They're working perfectly. For the directional color change a good way to achieve that would be placing both light colors on the same spot but making them invisible on one side. But if you use the one on KSC or old Wideawake, which I believe came from the all the other runways in orbiter, you wouldn't need to do anything more (of course if the AU runways are longer or shorter than KSC, then you'd need to add more rows of lights in the middle or subtract accordingly, making sure the green/red lights are on the threshold/end. But but let the white lights be white (looks like modern LEDS) vs the KSC's off white. The interval of the center lights should be approximately half of that of the sideline lights (again, this has already been taken care of by orbiters default runway lights., so if it could be superimposed on AU's runways and and winged launch runway, that would save us some time).

If you show me how and/or where to retrieve the lights on KSC and it's config and/or INI, I'll definitely give it a try. Show me also how to make the lights bigger, because the approach lights (all the lights before the runway threshold, leading to the green threshold lights) are usually bigger and have much higher intensity than the ones on the runway, because they guide the pilot to the runway, and he sees them from afar)

With respect to the runway markings (take a good look at KSC's SLF on google maps, it will help you understand better):

1. Start by stretching the runways (removing the white arrow areas as they are unnecessary at Wideawake, then add an additional no land area (with yellow chevrons. Some approach lights would be here just like on KSC in orbiter and in real life).

2. Make the runway lines bolder. That includes the two sides and the broken center (by the way, the center lines do not go beyond the numbers. there is a space between the runway width size indicator bars ("IIIIII IIIIII"). Makes it easier to count the bars and know the width of the runway. Of course yellow taxiway lines can be there no problem).

3. Make the "IIIIII IIIIII" bars 3 times longer than they already are, and the same length with the fat aimpoint marker

3. Make the runway threshold lines 4 times as bold as the side and centerlines.

I could stop so far and wait until these have been accomplished before continuing to the next step.

Also, if anyone could teach me how to change the sizes of these markers and their placements, I'm more than willing to mess with it.
 

wehaveaproblem

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Hi smasher,

Thanks for your kudos and suggestions. Unfortunately I don't have the mind to implement these changes as I'm not really developing ascension any more (I refuse to accept I've abandoned it completely, but have no plans to work on it any time soon). But as face has said, all the changes you want to make can be made by you. It won't be as simple as cutting and pasting settings from KSC as all the WIN stuff is custom, but it is possible to change it all if your learn how. The line markings and numbers are a mesh, so you would need to edit that in a 3d modelling program to make any changes to that stuff... The beacons can all be tweaked and changed in the setting file as face says. I encourage you to learn what you need to learn to make the changes as it sounds like you have a keen eye for the details.

With regards to the accuracy of the Wideawake set up as it is, I would just say remember 3 things. 1. This project has always been a bit sci-fi, so my work has balanced 'real' with 'cool', sometimes therefore sacrificing a bit of real for a bit more cool. 2. When deciding how big or long or bold things should be, bear in mind how big WIN is. It's been scaled to fit the xr5, so sometimes things might look small but in reality are bloody huge. 3. Make sure you request a landing on the runways via the mfd to make sure you have the right beacons showing up as they change their appearance when you do this. My memory is rusty but I'm sure some of the points you raised are covered when landing lights are activated, such as the red lights over the last third of the runway and such..

Cheers again, good luck with any changes you make!
 
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