News Whitney Houston has died

[FADEC]

Let's just get these things right, in the spirit of science.

The NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL of MEDICINE

If you like the spirit of science, you should be aware that the article in the New England Journal of Medicine does not represent the latest knowledge. It is based on one source from 2001.

The article from the Heart Health Center, which I posted, is based on five different sources, ranging from 2003 to 2008.

Here is another article, from 2009, answered by a doctor who is working in the field of heart failure:

Question: Can cocaine affect my risk of heart failure?

Answer: Probably the most dangerous of all the drugs to take chronically is cocaine. We know that cocaine affects the way the sympathetic nervous system affects the heart. We know that it also causes the small blood vessels in the heart to have damage. In fact, it can lead to a heart attack. And when we as cardiologists see a heart attack in a young individual who has no family history of coronary artery disease or a minimal risk factor profile, we immediately begin to ask them about the use of cocaine.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HeartFailureRisk/story?id=5227306#.T3Ry8tmjOSo

---------- Post added at 02:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 PM ----------

Another two sources:

Cocaine has powerful negative effects on the heart, brain, and emotions. Many cocaine users fall prey to addiction, with long-term and life threatening consequences. Even occasional users run the risk of sudden death with cocaine use.

Cocaine is bad for the heart. Cocaine increases heart rate and blood pressure while constricting the arteries supplying blood to the heart. The result can be a heart attack, even in young people without heart disease. Cocaine can also trigger a deadly abnormal heart rhythm called arrhythmia.

http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/cocaine-use-and-its-effects

Cocaine usually makes the user feel euphoric and energetic, but also increases body temperature, blood pressure, and heart rate. Users risk heart attacks, respiratory failure, strokes, seizures, abdominal pain, and nausea.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/drugs-abuse/cocaine

 

[JEL]

None of the ill-effects to the heart that you describe are CAUSED by cocaine.

It's is not the chemical itself that does any damage to the heart.

Excessive physical exertion can cause the exact same results (I've already posted links to you about sports-people and the sudden-death syndrome). And that's probably why it's more often party-people that get in trouble with stimulants. There's a bigger picture that you miss when just reaching out for the nearest stereotypical myth.

We already know Houston had a stressful life-style. That may have played an even bigger role than cocaine. Don't dismiss that just because you are anti-druguse.

At any rate, you can hate cocaine all you want, that's fine by me, but just treat it like gay sex; if you don't like it, don't do it, but don't use it as an excuse or reason to degrade people (you've been pretty dis-respectful of Whitney in this thread, IMO)

 

[FADEC]

None of the ill-effects to the heart that you describe are CAUSED by cocaine.

It's is not the chemical itself that does any damage to the heart.

Excessive physical exertion can cause the exact same results (I've already posted links to you about sports-people and the sudden-death syndrome). And that's probably why it's more often party-people that get in trouble with stimulants. There's a bigger picture that you miss when just reaching out for the nearest stereotypical myth.

We already know Houston had a stressful life-style. That may have played an even bigger role than cocaine. Don't dismiss that just because you are anti-druguse.

At any rate, you can hate cocaine all you want, that's fine by me, but just treat it like gay sex; if you don't like it, don't do it, but don't use it as an excuse or reason to degrade people (you've been pretty dis-respectful of Whitney in this thread, IMO)

Whether I like or dislike cocaine does not change the fact that it is a dangerous drug, not only for the heart. And I think we all here are mature enough to know this, and not comparing it with gay sex or something else which is out of context.

Houston has chosen a way of slow suicide, contributed by cocaine (and possibly other substances as well). You might accept it or put it in the back of your mind. It's up to you.

 

[JEL]

@FADEC; You don't seem to get that your opinion on cocaine is not what I'm objecting to. It's that you demean other people (Houston) solely based on their cultural choices. You don't have to agree with cocaine-use, or even to like it, but you do not have to demean her just for that reason.

If you want to talk about maturity, may I then suggest you begin yourself by not insulting people just for being culturally different from you? That would be the mature thing to do.

I didn't compare cocaine-use to gay sex. I said you should treat it in the same manor. My reason for doing that should be obvious; gay sex is frowned upon by many societies, even banned in some places, those who indulge in it even get attacked at times. None of that is ok, since people have a right to live free. I'm simply asking that you treat people who indulge in cocaine-use the same way you treat those who indulge in gay sex; protect their rights to choose their life-style freely without being oppressed or persecuted.

It's your 'moral police' attitude I object to. Unless Houston have explicitly told you she had chosen a 'path of slow suicide', then please stop inferring such disrespectful and distasteful nonsense.
Why on earth do you feel an urge to tarnish or smear her reputation?

 

[FADEC]

If you want to talk about maturity, may I then suggest you begin yourself by not insulting people just for being culturally different from you?

I already did begin myself, by...

Heart Disease can stem from cocaine usage.

No. That's just not true.

... posting enough sources which show that it is true.

You are now trying to talk about gay sex and cultural differences which is out of context.

 

[JEL]

Houston has chosen a way of slow suicide

YOU said that.
If that is not rude and insulting, then nothing is.

 

[FADEC]

YOU said that.
If that is not rude and insulting, then nothing is.

It's neither rude/insulting, nor has it something to do with cultural differences. It has to do with drug use. It was clearly visible to anyone by her terrifying changes - sudden weight loss, a shaky voice, and a distracted and jittery appearance accompanied by charges due to illegal drug possession by her and her husband Bobby Brown in the same year (2000). In 2002 she admitted drug use, which was not only related to cocaine but also other substances as well. And she did not die a natural death. As confirmed by coroner: she drowned after cocaine usage.

You might think this all happened by accident and it's just based on rumors and bad press. That's up to you. There are also people who think that Elvis Presley did not die but that he had to disappear into the underworld. But the sad truth is that he and Houston called the fate by taking drugs (and also drinking lots of alcohol in case of Presley). In the end they died too early, in their bathrooms.

 

[Urwumpe]

In the end they died too early, in their bathrooms.

if you look at Aerosmith or Meatloaf, there are also people who got ruined as singer by drug abuse and still managed to stay alive long enough to show the difference.

 

[FADEC]

if you look at Aerosmith or Meatloaf, there are also people who got ruined as singer by drug abuse and still managed to stay alive long enough to show the difference.

One difference might be that Houston was the most successful singer. A single person. She sold more albums in a shorter time than Aerosmith during their entire career for now. Not to mention Elvis Presley. Meat Loaf also is not really comparable to that fame and success. He basically drank as far as I know.

The Stones are also pretty much alive. It seems they knew the limits. John Kay (Born to Be Wild) did talk about drug use in the 1960s and 1970s in an interview a few years ago. It was quite interesting. He talked about some famous but already dead stars. He said at some point they started to worry whether there is enough cocaine in the house or not when they woke up in the morning. That was the point at which he realized that it's enough and, as he said, which is a point a lot of pop stars do miss very sadly. And that seemed to happen to Houston.

 

[Yoda]

Yoda says to put away difference..he does..so there can be peace in the Forum...uh huh...yes he does

 

[JEL]

It's neither rude/insulting

Claiming someone committed suicide is VERY rude and insulting. You could show the simple respect of keeping such accusations to yourself.
Be against cocaine-use all you like, but don't accuse people who use it for doing so because they want to kill themselves. That is totally out of line.

 

[mojoey]

Claiming someone committed suicide is VERY rude and insulting. You could show the simple respect of keeping such accusations to yourself.
Be against cocaine-use all you like, but don't accuse people who use it for doing so because they want to kill themselves. That is totally out of line.

So...if I watched someone jump out of a building and I said 'Oh, I saw them jump.' that's rude and insulting?

 

[FADEC]

Claiming someone committed suicide is VERY rude and insulting. You could show the simple respect of keeping such accusations to yourself.
Be against cocaine-use all you like, but don't accuse people who use it for doing so because they want to kill themselves. That is totally out of line.

It's not a claim or accusation. It's a sad reality which you seem to suppress by questioning the cause of her death and downplaying the consequences of cocaine use by claiming, against profound knowledge, that cocaine does not cause trouble to the cardiovascular system.

Whitney Houston drowned, at an age of only 48, after cocaine use, which is affirmed by coroner. She did use cocaine and, as she admitted, other substances, for many years. Even if she had not admitted, her dramatic weight loss, her shaky voice, and her distracted and jittery appearance was visible to everyone. A few month before she was found dead with cocaine in her blood, she again was enrolled in a rehabilitation center due to drug and alcohol problems last year.

It was a slow suicide of a super star. She was not the first one, and she sadly won't be the last one.

 

[JEL]

@FADEC; Do you actually understand what the difference between accidental un-intended death and intentional suicide is? It seems to me you don't.

For it to have been intentional suicide Houston must have had intentions of dying. Do you have any proof she had such intentions? Unless you have proof, your claim must logically be conjecture. Conjecture IS rude, whether you like it or not.

---------- Post added at 20:49 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

I'd like to suggest to any reading mod that this thread be closed permanently.

 

[FADEC]

@FADEC; Do you actually understand what the difference between accidental un-intended death and intentional suicide is? It seems to me you don't.

For it to have been intentional suicide Houston must have had intentions of dying. Do you have any proof she had such intentions? Unless you have proof, your claim must logically be conjecture. Conjecture IS rude, whether you like it or not.

Nobody else than Houston herself is responsible for her early death. She did use drugs and drank alcohol for more than a decade, excessively at times. She accepted the risks/her fate by doing so.

Not for nothing is drinking alcohol and using drugs on a regular basis called slow suicide in information campaigns for schools and by drug-counseling services. Because it is. Houston just is another famous example out of many. Sadly.

I'd like to suggest to any reading mod that this thread be closed permanently.

I think you can't or don't want to handle the particular truth about the circumstances of Houstons drug problems and death.

 

[orb]

O-F Staff Note: Thread closed.