Search Venera Program

[MJR]

It is actually starting to look good. Keep up the great work.

 

[4throck]

Some more texturing. I'll be out in vacation, so further progress will have to wait a few days. I'm happy with the lander and I'll just add some details like the camera windows. In reality, surface operations included extending an instrument arm to sample the surface (I have it on the model) and camera caps ejection (I don't have this yet, but I'll model them and then they can be animated - just move them to the surface close to the lander). The chute is yet missing from the lander.
The landing sphere has interior details but is still missing the external radiator "windows". For the orbiter, there are some models available and I can work from there. I'll try to represent it covered in thermal blanket, but it will take some time to get that finished. Probably there will be a specific venus.cfg to mimic the atmospheric colors measured by the Veneras.

 

[4throck]

I've finished modeling. I'm no expert so the models aren't very detailed, yet dimensions and appearance should be correct.

For the orbital module, I adapted the generic Venera model available for Celestia by Jack Higgins, in turn based on a VRML by Alexander Chernov, so that it would represent the Venera 9 configuration. All credit goes to them for the base model used.
I added new solar panels with the right dimensions and shape and removed some in-existing instruments. Also, thermal insulation material texture was applied and the dimensions were scaled to match the entry sphere.

The parachutes are the worse part, as they are not based on any actual reference.

Here are some images of the different parts together (parachute lines didn't show but are in the model):

Now I'll convert the models into Orbiter and make them available here if MJR is still available to help with configuration files. Some animations might also be good (that's why there are parachutes on it and a deployable instrument arm . In reality there were also jetisonable camera covers... perhaps I should model them too).

 

[4throck]

Started to export the meshes to Orbiter. I'm using Venera-D by kodiak as a guideline for the general setup and flight phases.

If there's no more feedback I'll release a simple working version that will allow you to separate the entry capsule and land.
If someone is really interested and want's to help with the numbers, I can put the thing on a Proton so that it can be flown from start to finish. But that will take time and requires research into spacecraft mass, engines, etc.

 

[Istochnikov]

Let me find in my archives and i'll give you the numbers.

I'll have understood that these legendary spaceships weight more than 6 tons. So, the Proton K/Blok D maybe can't put this in escape trajectory, and the Venera itself should fire its engines for achieve the final speed (Fobos 1&2 and Mars 8/1996 did that). Yhis is something that you should take in mind when you calculats masses, dVs and some other parameters.

 

[4throck]

Thank you. I'm still working on mesh orientations and such. Then I'll start putting the numbers in.
So far, I have this a reference for figures: http://www.russianspaceweb.com/venera75.html
It mentions:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1975 June 8: The Proton booster (8K82K) with Block D upper stage blasted off from the "right-hand" launch pad at Site 81 in Baikonur Cosmodrome at 0237 UTC, carrying the 4V-1 No. 660 spacecraft. (186) After the vehicle reached a low circular orbit around the Earth and Block D engine fired for the second time sending the probe toward Venus, the Soviet press announced the mission as Venera-9. " [/FONT]

If correct, the Block D did manage to get escape speed.


Here are some WIP images. I think I'll have to export the meshes again because they are not smooth...



I like to see it on top of the Proton!

This is the entry sphere separating

And this is the lander

 

[the.punk]

That looks cool.
Keep up the good work.

 

[4throck]

I've tried to solve the mesh non smooth faces problem. As far as I can understand, the cause is the bad export by 3ds2mesh. I tried other export tools, but encountered several problems with scale, orientation and bad texture placement.
So there's no obvious solution that I know of. If someone has some suggestion, I'd like to hear it. At least the lander and the entry sphere must look smooth.
As far as actual progress, I've corrected the orbital bus by placing the magnetometer antenna and adding RCS thrusters.

 

[Piper]

I've tried to solve the mesh non smooth faces problem. As far as I can understand, the cause is the bad export by 3ds2mesh. I tried other export tools, but encountered several problems with scale, orientation and bad texture placement.
So there's no obvious solution that I know of. If someone has some suggestion, I'd like to hear it. At least the lander and the entry sphere must look smooth.
As far as actual progress, I've corrected the orbital bus by placing the magnetometer antenna and adding RCS thrusters.

I've had this same problem with anim8or all the time, I corrected it by deselecting "Split Textured 3DS Points" in the Option/Debug menu. If you are using the same program, that should fix your problem, if it's a different program, there may be a similar option somewhere.

 

[Istochnikov]

My Data:

Launch Mass: 4500-5030 kg: Reserve aproximately 800-1000 kilos for the descent ball, 660 kilos of which are for the lander.

Engine: KTDU 425A: Thrust: 9856-18896 N (yup, dual mode) ISP: 315 sec (315*9.81=...). Max burn time (assumed a thrust of 18896N): 560 sec

I think you can calculate the fuel mass and substract to the remaining 4000 kilos of the Venera 4V-1/2 bus. Basing on these data, the Proton-K/Blok-D can kick the BIG ass of Venera 4V-1/2 without problems.çç

AH!!! Thank you for alleviate the task of developing it Originally it was in my plans, but it was veeeeeeeeeeeeeery down in the list But your develompent is AMAZING :speakcool:

 

[Thorton]

Descent module total mass - 1560 kg
V9 mass - 4936 kg
V10 - 5033 kg
V11 - 4715 kg

Dry mass of the orbiter after lander separation - 2,231/2,230 kg (V9/V10)

V9 Mass of onboard propellant - 1093 kg

 

[4throck]

Thank you all for the help.
I've tried to launch on the Proton with a ~5000kg mass and it handled well.
Right now, I'm trying to solve two things:
» Exporting again or editing the meshes to make them smooth (*)
» Getting the RCS engines on the Venera orbiter right (angles and axis )

Then I'll put in the mass data and try to do at least a "separation" situation with accurate parameters in terms of fuel left at that stage in the mission and position relative to the planet. It's after separation that the Orbiter does the insertion burn. I have a diagram of this in relation to the planet and the lander, so it will be interesting to get right latter on.

Anyway, and to keep all the figures on the same place and available for the community, I came up with this:

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Course correction 1 - put the probe trajectory within 1,600 kilometers from the surface of Venus - 11.93 m/s dv[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Course correction 2 - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]refined the landing regions and times of the entry[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] - 13.44 m/s dv[/FONT]

• [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Orbiter/lander separation [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](1975 October 20) [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]- [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] maneuver to swing the spacecraft around the opposite side of the planet from the lander - [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]247.30 m/s dv[/FONT]

• Orbit insertion ([FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1975 October 22)[/FONT] - established a [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1,510 by 112,200-kilometer orbit around Venus, with the inclination 34.10 degrees - [/FONT]922.70

I think that the amount of fuel and burn times could be calculated from these figures ( no really something I know much about... perhaps time to learn some math ). Anyway, I'll worry about that further down the development process.



(*) for Piper: I'm not exporting my 3ds models from anim8or but I'll try to import and export them with that setting.

 

[4throck]

I've been testing some 3ds export options in Sketchup. I know that it's not the best program for 3D modeling, but it has worked so far (for example, the Little Joe rocket.

I managed to get a smooth Orbiter mesh but the textures then become completely distorted. Perhaps it has something to do with the modeling itself, so I'll have to try exporting some simple models and sort it out. This might take some time.

I can keep working on the add-on using the current faceted meshes... and then release a new version when it's solved.


What do you all think is best ?

 

[Saturn V]

That's some pretty nice work 4throck. For what it's worth to you, the faceted meshes don't detract from the overall look of the model and don't bother me in the least.

As the driving force behind this project, I realize it'll never be "done" till you're satisfied, but the little things that drive me bonkers with my add-ons, most folks never notice.

Just my 2 cents worth of free advice...

 

[4throck]

Thanks for the encouragement. I've made some progress into solving the faceted problem. By importing the 3ds file into Animator and them reexporting at least some of the faces become smooth. What I'd need is some sort of "model cleaner" that would remove/merge duplicates or invisible geometry. Perhaps animator can do that. So there's still some hope .

Anyway, there are more Veneras (I'm only working on 9) and perhaps those will have better smooth meshes... For now I'll be happy if at least the lander and entry sphere looks smooth. For the Orbiter I agree that it doesn't distract much.

 

[Dig Gil]

Hello 4throck,
For you problems here's my advice (the ones which I have advice for):
-Smoothing the mesh: Have you read the manual of [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=632"]Mesh Maker 2.0[/ame] (now it's 2.1)? It enables you to control conversion parameters and the one you are looking for is "material_tension".

-The parachutes: I would get images from parachutes of other russian spacecraft; the most approximate to the ones Venera would use.

 

[Istochnikov]

I've been testing some 3ds export options in Sketchup. I know that it's not the best program for 3D modeling, but it has worked so far (for example, the Little Joe rocket.

I managed to get a smooth Orbiter mesh but the textures then become completely distorted. Perhaps it has something to do with the modeling itself, so I'll have to try exporting some simple models and sort it out. This might take some time.

I can keep working on the add-on using the current faceted meshes... and then release a new version when it's solved.


What do you all think is best ?

An advice: If you apply a Smooth modifier, you have to re-texture the mesh OR manage the hierarchy related to the smoothed element so the smooth modifier turns into child modifier of the UV Mapping

 

[4throck]

Hello 4throck,
For you problems here's my advice (the ones which I have advice for):
-Smoothing the mesh: Have you read the manual of Mesh Maker 2.0 (now it's 2.1)? It enables you to control conversion parameters and the one you are looking for is "material_tension".

-The parachutes: I would get images from parachutes of other russian spacecraft; the most approximate to the ones Venera would use.

I've been using 3ds2mesh with no problems except for the facets.
I've tried Mesh Maker once some time ago and it messed up the texturing and scale. I guess it probably was my fault (bad 3ds export) so I'll try it again.

Thank you very much for the advice :speakcool: !

(As for the parachutes, they are unrealistic on purpose. Perhaps I'll take a look at what Soyuz uses!)

---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 PM ----------

An advice: If you apply a Smooth modifier, you have to re-texture the mesh OR manage the hierarchy related to the smoothed element so the smooth modifier turns into child modifier of the UV Mapping

Thanks for the tip!

 

[Dig Gil]

(As for the parachutes, they are unrealistic on purpose. Perhaps I'll take a look at what Soyuz uses!)!

Just remember that Venus' atmosphere is denser, so probably the parachutes are smaller than those for Earth Reentry.:thumbup:

 

[4throck]

This is what I got with MeshMaker:



I've had problems with scale, reverse orientation and reverse faces that I corrected with MeshWizard. As you can see, some textures are reversed and the entry sphere has assumed just one texture...

My guess is that my modeling is to blame, nevertheless it's too much work to fix problems that weren't there initially (I can import the 3ds models fine in Anim8).
So I'll stick with the faceted models converted using 3ds2mesh that work OK and require little correction.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions.
I've found some drawings of the parachutes (actually all the entry sequence) that I think should be correct although it's from V11-12: