US vessel fires at Iranian boats.

[Notebook]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7367675.stm

N.

Rumours here:-

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=95148.html

N.

 

[Eagle]

I'm not surprised this has happened. Expect another confrontation like this in a month or two.

 

[Zatnikitelman]

This is starting to get irritating. They have Enterprise over there, that alone should have been enough to cause Iran to think twice!
What really rattles me is that our ships aren't armed with much of anything any more. Some missiles and 1 or 2 five inch guns per ship. What we really need is to assign an old Iowa class battleship over there and next time Iran sends its little rowboats out to harass our ships, ALL of the Iowas' guns follow the Iranian ship as if they were going to shoot. At the very least, put some decent guns on our cruisers!

 

[Dogsbd]

This is starting to get irritating. They have Enterprise over there, that alone should have been enough to cause Iran to think twice!
What really rattles me is that our ships aren't armed with much of anything any more. Some missiles and 1 or 2 five inch guns per ship. What we really need is to assign an old Iowa class battleship over there and next time Iran sends its little rowboats out to harass our ships, ALL of the Iowas' guns follow the Iranian ship as if they were going to shoot. At the very least, put some decent guns on our cruisers!

USS Enterprise is in port at Newport News, beginning a 16 month refit.

But anyway, just about every ship in the US Navy, of any appreciable size, is armed with at least one Mk-15 Phalanx CIWS. This 3-4 thousand round per minute 20mm weapon would cut any Iranian fast boat in two.

 

[Andy44]

Anyone want to bet there'll be a new war before Bush is out of office?

 

[computerex]

What we really need is to assign an old Iowa class battleship over there and next time Iran sends its little rowboats out to harass our ships, ALL of the Iowas' guns follow the Iranian ship as if they were going to shoot. At the very least, put some decent guns on our cruisers!

They were over international waters...

 

[Urwumpe]

Thank god, they only use the guns for artillery support, in naval battles they are pretty useless. The best weapon there is a aircraft carrier...

 

[tl8]

Thank god, they only use the guns for artillery support, in naval battles they are pretty useless. The best weapon there is a aircraft carrier...

Missiles are better, at least for dumb or risky tasks (no family), also the navy only pay for the missiles if they fire them (at least it was the case with the SLBM's)

Though the AC could ram the boats, Many cases of this happening with the escorts, (You have better chances with ground vs aircraft)

 

[Zatnikitelman]

Sorry I was ranting a bit there. Guess I better check ship statuses before I go about ranting about who's over there
Guns however are far more menacing looking than some missile hatches. Plus, they're cheaper and a much easier to use alternative to missiles at short range.

Though I'm curious, what does it being international waters have to do with anything? 'long as we don't actually fire anything, does it matter? They approached a United States ship in a threatening manner. Frankly, I'd say shoot, but then Iran would scream bloody murder and there'd all sortsa crap flying around.

 

[Andy44]

International waters? Who knows what to believe these days. Remember the British sailors and Marines who were captured by Iran some months back? We were all told that they were in legitimate waters, but recently it came out that the US/UK/neo-Iraqi governments had moved the border towards Iran, and didn't bother to tell Iran. Glenn Greenwald or somebody details it. Never buy what you see in the news at first glance these days. There are powerful people in DC who would like very much to find an excuse to attack Iran, and they're not above bending the facts.

 

[Urwumpe]

Andy44: Actually, the story was way more complex, if I remember correctly. Something about treaties which had not been ratified or revoked by the new Iraq government...

I think something along the lines of the UK not having updated their naval maps correctly.

 

[Andy44]

Yeah, I can't remember the whole story, but the designation of borders between Iraq and Iran has been a sore spot ever since the post-WWI days. I think Iraq/UK tried to set the border up on the eastern shore of the Shaat al Arab waterway, which would mean Iranian vessels would have to pay a fee and be subject to inspections in order to reach Iranian ports inland, and Iran wanted the border to be drawn down the middle fo the waterway instead so both sides could use it. I may have it backwards, but I know this is one of the things that drove the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s.

It's easy to paint Iran as the bad guy all the time, especially if you remember the hostage crisis of 1979. I was in elementary school when it happened, and it certainly won Iran no friends in the U.S. But as you point out, the situation's much more complex. In many ways Iran is the way it is today as a result of US and UK meddling back in the 50s and before.

I just ask that when you see an incident like this in the news, not to get all spun up and emotional about it. Look at the background and think carefully.

 

[computerex]

They approached a United States ship in a threatening manner. Frankly, I'd say shoot, but then Iran would scream bloody murder and there'd all sortsa crap flying around.

Where does it say they approached the ship in a "threatening manner" ? Were you there to confirm this? "Threatening" is a relative term anyway. That's the thing about us humans, we are not grateful. We are fortunate enough to even exist in the relatively hostile and violent universe, instead of uniting together to take care of our beautiful planet, we act violently and kill one another. Iranians are humans as well, no different then you or I, don't take the loss of human lives so lightly.

 

[Dogsbd]

Where does it say they approached the ship in a "threatening manner" ?

Given what happened to USS Cole any unauthorized approach by unknown boats that will not reply when challenged is "threatening". And when said boats don't even respond warning whistles and flares are fired it is obvious that their intentions are suspect.

As for being international waters, that has no bearing at all on the situation. There are rules of the sea that are to be followed regardless if you're in a harbor or 1000 miles from the nearest land. These boats that approached Westward Venture broke most of those rules.

 

[Andy44]

Unless it was Iranian waters...

 

[Dogsbd]

Unless it was Iranian waters...

Well it wasn't, but even if it were one nation doesn't harass ships of other nations making passage through their waters unless they're prepared to live with the consequences of doing so. The ship still has a right to protect itself even in the waters of another nation. The narrowest part of that body of water is about 21 miles wide at the Strait of Hormuz so any ships passing here would in be in Iranian territorial waters, nevertheless Iran has no right to hinder such traffic (under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea) unless they are prepared to go to war over the issue. And that didn't work out too well for them the last time they tried it.

 

[tl8]

Why doesn't the US solve this problem by going to war with Iran. I'm sure they can come up with some bull excuse, They did last time:dry:

 

[willy88]

I think it's time the US starts mounting the good ol' (new) Agony-Beam on their warships.

Those Iranians should better think twice before messing with the Navy.

 

[Tex]

Why doesn't the US solve this problem by going to war with Iran. I'm sure they can come up with some bull excuse, They did last time:dry:

I don't think the US in general should be stero-typed here if you are referring to the war in Iraq. The Bush Administration came up with the "excuse" and we as American citizens had no say in the matter what so ever.

 

[n0mad23]

I just ask that when you see an incident like this in the news, not to get all spun up and emotional about it. Look at the background and think carefully.

This is the key. "Who wins? Who loses? What's at stake?"

It's always worth considering that there's a red-herring in play as well.