Gaming The Kerbal Space Program - Version 1.2.x

Ark

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Ive always thought that mechjeb was evidence of a bit of a problem in the KSP community. I dont have an issue with using autopilots in KSP or Orbiter, but I can remember people saying things like "I couldn't do anything in KSP without mechjeb". That would seem to imply that they didnt learn much of anything from using the program, kinda disappointing, but hey...

Eh, it's a sandbox, it doesn't matter what other people do with it.

From all the time I spent in Orbiter I know how to manually fly to orbit, but that doesn't mean I don't love having the ability to push a button, get up, and go pour a cup of copy while my rocket flies itself into orbit.
 

Codz

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From all the time I spent in Orbiter I know how to manually fly to orbit, but that doesn't mean I don't love having the ability to push a button, get up, and go pour a cup of copy while my rocket flies itself into orbit.

This is especially true in orbital construction. It gets rather tiring to launch umpteen pieces to orbit by hand.
 

BruceJohnJennerLawso

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Eh, it's a sandbox, it doesn't matter what other people do with it.

From all the time I spent in Orbiter I know how to manually fly to orbit, but that doesn't mean I don't love having the ability to push a button, get up, and go pour a cup of copy while my rocket flies itself into orbit.

True, but if the computer does everything for you, whats the point? You might as well just sit and enjoy the cup of coffee ;).

I do think there is some importance to understanding what you're doing though. Before I sat down & forced myself to learn rendezvous & docking, I would just let UAP do it for me, but I never enjoyed it very much, & I certainly wasn't a very good pilot.
 

Codz

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True, but if the computer does everything for you, whats the point? You might as well just sit and enjoy the cup of coffee ;).

I do think there is some importance to understanding what you're doing though. Before I sat down & forced myself to learn rendezvous & docking, I would just let UAP do it for me, but I never enjoyed it very much, & I certainly wasn't a very good pilot.

Some people enjoy the engineering aspect far more than the piloting aspect. It's not just a matter of flying your spacecraft correctly; it's also a matter of ensuring that it can fly.
 

BruceJohnJennerLawso

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Some people enjoy the engineering aspect far more than the piloting aspect. It's not just a matter of flying your spacecraft correctly; it's also a matter of ensuring that it can fly.

Yes, again a good point, but how exactly can you engineer it to work without being able to fly it? Its well nigh impossible to address a problem you cant understand.
 

Codz

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Yes, again a good point, but how exactly can you engineer it to work without being able to fly it? Its well nigh impossible to address a problem you cant understand.

It's not as if it just teleports to orbit. The autopilot is still bound by the rules of physics and the game. Just observe the autopliot.
 

BruceJohnJennerLawso

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It's not as if it just teleports to orbit. The autopilot is still bound by the rules of physics and the game. Just observe the autopliot.

Yes, I get it, but the actual problems that one would have to face in the VAB are always found during flight, and then corrected. If you dont understand the underlying principles for what you have to fix, and how they relate to the flight (TWR too low, ISP not high enough, payload too heavy, RCS off the CG) you're never going to fix them.

Autopilots are really just a crutch to ease things for beginners, not something that should be used constantly. The RTI ISS-0 mission was a good example of what can happen when you place the outcome of the mission in the hands of an AP. APs are fine in certain situations, but the ability to think critically is something that only a human (or kerbal ;)) pilot can bring to the table, and APs have a tendency to backfire when presented with a new challenge.

Anyways, its not that big of a deal really, but Ive always found that understanding what you're doing is better than winging it. Once you learn how to do all of the things an autopilot can do, you get the most enjoyment out of doing it yourself, and doing it better than the computer does it.
 
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Codz

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Yes, I get it, but the actual problems that one would have to face in the VAB are always found during flight, and then corrected. If you dont understand the underlying principles for what you have to fix, and how they relate to the flight (TWR too low, ISP not high enough, payload too heavy, RCS off the CG) you're never going to fix them.

Autopilots are really just a crutch to ease things for beginners, not something that should be used constantly.

All of the variables that you mentioned are still factors for the autopilot, and still easily learnable outside of the sim. The autopilot doesn't magically fix engineering flaws. Besides, even with autopilots, most orbital maneuvers (rendezvous, docking, interplantetary transfers, etc) still need to be flown by hand. Using an autopilot does not equal being ignorant of orbital mechanics.
 
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Hielor

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I've spent a couple of evenings on the game and this is my opinion so far:

- The rocket building part is cool, fun and addictive.

- The flying part is a major pain due to lack of suitable navigation tools. I'm supposed to put a protractor on the screen to measure angle between planets? Really?
Not sure why you need the angle between planets--with the "plan maneuver" utility, you can move it all around and figure out where the maneuver needs to be anyway.
 

kamaz

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Not sure why you need the angle between planets--with the "plan maneuver" utility, you can move it all around and figure out where the maneuver needs to be anyway.

Because there's a nice calculator for planning Hohmann transfers: http://ksp.olex.biz/

It gives you phase and ejection angles, but the game does not tell you what the phase angle between planets currently is, so you don't know when to take off. That's why you need the protractor.

...Anyway, after some cursing I have finally managed to do an interplanetary transfer in KSP. Woo-hoo!
 

Codz

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Because there's a nice calculator for planning Hohmann transfers: http://ksp.olex.biz/

It gives you phase and ejection angles, but the game does not tell you what the phase angle between planets currently is, so you don't know when to take off. That's why you need the protractor.

...Anyway, after some cursing I have finally managed to do an interplanetary transfer in KSP. Woo-hoo!

That's all available in-game in the addon I linked earlier.
 

kamaz

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Besides, even with autopilots, most orbital maneuvers (rendezvous, docking, interplantetary transfers, etc) still need to be flown by hand. Using an autopilot does not equal being ignorant of orbital mechanics.

Even if the autopilot flies the maneuvers (i.e. does burns), the real educational value is in planning them.

IMHO KSP is better for teaching basics than Orbiter. Orbiter is too confusing for a beginner, because it throws too many numbers at them.

---------- Post added at 11:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 PM ----------

That's all available in-game in the addon I linked earlier.

Yes, I noticed. Thanks a lot, I'll give it a try :)
 

N_Molson

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IMHO KSP is better for teaching basics than Orbiter. Orbiter is too confusing for a beginner, because it throws too many numbers at them.

I agree on that. It seems better to introduce people to spaceflight. And if they want to go deeper into the subject... ;)
 

BruceJohnJennerLawso

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I agree on that. It seems better to introduce people to spaceflight. And if they want to go deeper into the subject... ;)

Yes... but I still favour the "blood n guts" approach to these things, just sitting down with a copy of the deep space manual and working hard at it. I guess we're all partial to our own methods :lol:

KSP is a nice way to teach some of the hard-to-explain stuff though, like multiple course corrections & plane changes, not to mention working with staging & the like.
 

N_Molson

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Well, what makes things easier in KSP are :

- conveniently located equatorial base and conveniently 0° Inc Mun orbit
- serious shrinking of the distances compared to our Sol
- and above all, a very visual, crystal clear map view interface, that shows you in realtime where you are going. And Harv' is working on adding filters to that view for making it even more clear.

Artlav did an addon like that (Videnie Orbit Drawing) for Orbiter but sadly, it doesn't work with D3D9 Client.
 

rodion_herrera

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Just spoofing around hehehe

emonkersk3.jpg


http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-i8FJyM3hAnw/T7tEY34Ew0I/AAAAAAAAIx0/0_Gf5A1l6zg/s1600/spacex09.jpg

-RODION
 
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APDAF

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I dare you to light that candle. :chainsaw:
 
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