News 'Ten shot dead' at Batman film premiere in Denver

[fort]

There will be the official declarations of which the public will take knowledge, of which the one can be, from the killer himself. And, afterwards, our own interrogations, and the one of the specialists, of which the psychiatrists, maybe; that will remain.

There will be motives, advanced. And as always the unfathomable party ( i don't like mondays ). Why that, as that? Why there, why them?

The historians, or the history same, will do can be something with that.

I not believe that that this be, even of very prompt in its manners, not have at any moment wished to know. Know or attempt to know. We are done as that.

Then, if we look at the murder as an abnormality, so much bigger when she appears lacking motives (hunger, his own physical life put in game by others - but this is then self defense), we not avoid questioning ourselves.

And of this interrogation come us sometimes of the responses, or of the less than interpretations, being a question of such or such special crime, that we can take to not to condemn, if the société ( in french ), nevertheless, claims his duty (confinement and sometimes ultimate punishment, although one can wonder to know who, in the circumstance, one punishes; yes: "you will not kill"...).

Then, it is not a matter of excuse, but to understand a little, and to repair, a little, if one can.

How, remain a true question.

( Sorry for this very imprecise English )

 

[SpaceShuttleFan]

I expected to wake up to news about how good the movie was, not that some psycho shot everybody in the theater! As Yoda said, we're in the international spotlight again because of some crazed gunman. My condolences go out to the victims.

 

[Hielor]

This is not far from where I went to high school (far closer to my high school than Columbine, for those of you making that comparison) and I still have some friends/acquaintances in the area. What I'd like most is a list of casualties so I can confirm that no one I know was involved, but it'll probably be several days before that comes out.

 

[Screamer7]

What troubles me the most, apart from the death of innocent people, is how can a single man be in possession of so many lethal weapons.

 

[Urwumpe]

What troubles me the most, apart from the death of innocent people, is how can a single man be in possession of so many lethal weapons.

The right to bear arms in its total absurdity.

What troubles me more is the amount of high explosive that this guy has gathered in his house... it isn't booby-trapped - it is one big booby-trap it seems, by the size of the safety cordon. he had more than enough time to prepare his crime it seems. Unnoticed.

 

[dgatsoulis]

What troubles me the most, apart from the death of innocent people, is how can a single man be in possession of so many lethal weapons.

One could post this:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country"]Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

But it would be nothing untill you compare it with this:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms

Countries with high gun/per person/ possesion, appear very low on the gun related crimes chart. While countries with relatively low gun possesion, appear very high.

Some countries are consistently in the top five *cough*U.S.*cough*, but I think the problem is somewhere else.

*The right to bear arms in its total absurdity. *

You give guns to your army, you give guns to the police, why would you give guns to anyone else?

We could start a thread that asks: "In your country, if you killed a person -with a gun- in selfdefence, how many months/years would you spend in jail?"

 

[Urwumpe]

To be fair, it's not as if there's any chance he's innocent, as there are dozens of witnesses. There certainly is also absolutely no justification for what he did either. Though, he he does of course, have the right to a balanced defence, and I fully support that.

Even more the victims deserve to be more than just a victim of just another crime. Every murder, even a mass murder, is a very personal event, that has always two involved for every killing: Who kills and who is killed. And both have their stories.

Doesn't it disturb you, that we know the name of the killer, but not the names of the victims?

 

[dgatsoulis]

Doesn't it disturb you, that we know the name of the killer, but not the names of the victims?

Media attention. Far more easy to scare a whole bunch of people -and get better ratings/thus more money while doing so- than actually reporting the news.

If you were a reporter, which story would get you more money?
-Man kills 15
-Man saves 15

 

[N_Molson]

There was an obvious media frenzy on this event, and they were completely unresponsible to give false numbers of victims... Imagine how the families have felt :facepalm:

 

[Screamer7]

There was an obvious media frenzy on this event, and they were completely unresponsible to give false numbers of victims... Imagine how the families have felt :facepalm:

I echo your statement.
The media LOVED to be sensational, if that is the right word.
I HATE it when they do that!!!!

 

[Tommy]

Even more the victims deserve to be more than just a victim of just another crime. Every murder, even a mass murder, is a very personal event, that has always two involved for every killing: Who kills and who is killed. And both have their stories.

Doesn't it disturb you, that we know the name of the killer, but not the names of the victims?

How are these people any more dead than those killed in a plain old mugging?

Giving this kind of media hype to a mass shooting only serves to glorify the shooter (in the minds of potential future shooters), and many of us in the Law Enforcement and Criminology fields believe it contributes to future shootings. This belief is based in part on interviews with the shooters themselves - most of who claim to have wanted the attention - to make some kind of statement.

As to the names of the victims, they WILL NOT be released until next-of-kin has been notified. How would you like to find out your child or brother had been killed from a newspaper article? Does your right to privacy automatically end at death? At your family members death? (If the police give out the names of victims, their families will be hounded mercilessly by the press).

The best thing would have been to release NO names - and deny the shooter the attention and "glory" he wanted.

BTW, for those of you who think this means we need more gun restrictions - the Cinema has a "no guns allowed" policy, which prevented anyone else (ie, the law abiding citizens) from being able to defend themselves. The vast majority of these shootings are performed by people who don't have any real mental illness, and are VERY carefully planned. They are deliberately committed in places with gun restrictions because they provide a "virgin field" of unarmed victims. Places like schools, malls, workplaces, etc. It should be noted that the guy who shot Cliffords was one of the rare shooters who actually was crazy - and the only one who didn't choose a "gun-free" venue. He didn't even get to fire a full magazine before being stopped, while the other shooters (like Colombine, VA Tech, Toronto Mall, etc) all managed to fire off several magazines - and most stopped only because they ran out of ammo.

Heck, I even saw some of the anti-gun propaganda in the media reports here - one paper claimed that Colorado permits the sale of full-auto guns. Not true - full-auto guns are only available to people who possess a FEDERAL permit (ie, certified Law Enforcement agencies and licensed dealers). Colorado itself doesn't have any restrictions on full-auto because the restrictions are already in place at the federal level and no state law would supercede federal law.

 

[C3PO]

To be fair, it's not as if there's any chance he's innocent, as there are dozens of witnesses. There certainly is also absolutely no justification for what he did either. Though, he he does of course, have the right to a balanced defence, and I fully support that.

I don't for one moment expect this guy to be acquitted. The problem is that it looks like that was never the plan. What's the motive of crimes like this? It doesn't look like any particular person(s) was targeted, and no valuables were gained. There's an apparent increase in senseless crime where it's very hard to spot what the perpetrators expect to gain from it. What could cause someone's views to get so far out of whack, that this would look like reasonable option? Like most terrorists the Unabomber had a clear objective for his terrorism, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

There is no, I repeat. NO excuse for actions like this, but there's always a reason. No matter how screwed up it is, it's there somewhere.

I put the 'lynch mob' in quote-unquote for a reason too. I'm not joining the competition in shouting "Evil", not because I don't agree, but because it is unproductive. It doesn't change a thing. It only works on people that don't have screwed up views.

This case will go through the justice system, and this suspect will hopefully get the punishment he deserves. 'Innocence' doesn't even look like it's on the table in this case, but we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Codz]

I absolutely agree. Finding out the reason for why this incident occured is integral to trying to prevent the next one from occuring.

 

[Urwumpe]

I absolutely agree. Finding out the reason for why this incident occured is integral to trying to prevent the next one from occuring.

It is also a matter about being able to tell why the victims are dead. It could be easy and comfortable to just claim it is the act of a crazy mind. But that is just one ingredient. Guns don't kill people, people do, all right.

But how can somebody gather guns, ammo and explosives, turn his flat into a large mine field and prepare for a shooting without other people noticing it?

That has to be established. Which warning signs had been there, at which point could the chain of decisions and ingredients that led to the shooting finally be broken?

Just banning guns would be only an option for solving the situation, if he would just stop his evolution into a killer because of it. I doubt it.

Not that I like armed people. The USA are no example for me there, I prefer the swiss gun culture more. But what makes the difference between Switzerland and the USA in the end?

 

[Keatah]

Society is often too busy with itself to worry about the " disturbed loner", which is what this will probably turn out to be.

The amount of effort involved in self-policing by society is just too much.

And furthermore, will we now be subject to inspection at movie theaters?

 

[Urwumpe]

And furthermore, will we now be subject to inspection at movie theaters?

Yeah, there will be TSA inspections at every movie theater.

 

[Ragtag]

But how can somebody gather guns, ammo and explosives, turn his flat into a large mine field and prepare for a shooting without other people noticing it?

I don't know about Colorado but here in MA I'm pretty sure it's illegal to have body armor.

Not that I like armed people. The USA are no example for me there, I prefer the swiss gun culture more. But what makes the difference between Switzerland and the USA in the end?

Because they are all or mostly all armed. Here in the US people are convinced that guns kill and not the person pulling the trigger. There is such a fear of firearms in this country that you can be arrested for just having one in view of the public.

This whack job had this well planned and even may have had an accomplish because it's a little unclear how he was able to open a locked steal door with no outside handle. A door the opens inward which would be very hard to breach without some heavy equipment.

His plan was good because some witnesses said at first they thought it was part of the special showing. A stunt of some sort because he was dressed up in body armor and had a gas mask on. He was well protected so even if somebody broke the law by carry a firearm into a firearm free zone, something few law abiding gun owners do, they would have had a hard time taking him out.

There is so much that points to a very well planned operation that it's really kind of scary. He even knew which fire exit door in the multi-screen complex lead to the theater with the most people. I can't say what it was about but he did not intend to die because he calmly surrendered even though he was well armed and protected. A place in history maybe.

 

[Quick_Nick]

Certainly investigate how he obtained his supplies. But a simple gun ban isn't going to solve anything. He had riot gear, tear gas, body armor, very likely illegal weapons including an automatic rifle, and likely significant bombs/explosives. He could have just set off bombs instead, or any number of things. As mentioned in an earlier post, gun-free areas are specifically targeted. Armed civilians would have been no real help in this unusual situation, but had he at least not been wearing armor, it could have helped.

 

[N_Molson]

but had he at least not been wearing armor, it could have helped.

But he was.

 

[C3PO]

But how can somebody gather guns, ammo and explosives, turn his flat into a large mine field and prepare for a shooting without other people noticing it?

That has to be established. Which warning signs had been there, at which point could the chain of decisions and ingredients that led to the shooting finally be broken?

I don't have enough information to arrive at a conclusion, but I suspect isolation plays an important part in creating the environment where ideas like this can sprout.

Just banning guns would be only an option for solving the situation, if he would just stop his evolution into a killer because of it. I doubt it.

I don't consider 1 or 3 or [__] people killed with an axe any less of a tragedy then 12 people killed with guns. This crime was too well planned to be prevented with just stricter gun control. If the perpetrator spends 6 months acquiring his "tools", there will always be enough dangerous stuff around to do serious damage. Many of these crimes are perpetrated by well educated people.