Strange use of the word 'off'

[agentgonzo]

When bean-counters and other similar managerial types are writing lists of things they want, they often write things like
*Apples, one (1) off
*Pears, five (5) off

I can understand why they write both numbers and words for the quantity (though not really necessary nowadays in printed and electronic documents - presumably a throwback from the old pen-and-paper days), but does anyone know why the use the word 'off'? It seems to make absolutely no grammatical sense.

 

[ASCII]

Do you mean like... a discount?

As in apples $3 off

or do you mean tallying?

I honestly don't know if I've seen that before.

 

[reverend]

I just asked the accountant at our office. He's never seen the use of the word off in this context...

 

[Notebook]

It is often used in parts lists, and descriptions of exploded diagrams. I don't know when it was first or why it was used. It seems to be close to the word "ove", which usually means 'part of', as in being part of a larger structure. Maybe "off" was used as a synonym, phonetically they are close in English.

N.

 

[agentgonzo]

It is often used in parts lists, and descriptions of exploded diagrams.

Yep, that's exactly the context that I see it in.

 

[tblaxland]

I think the origin has do to with how many you need to run off a production line. The term "one-off" referring to a unique article is no-doubt related.

It is also useful as a separator between the quantity and the description where to delineate between a numerical quantity from a numerical description (eg 4 off 4x2). The context in your OP is probably a corruption of this usage (eg 4x2, 4 off).

For what it is worth, "of" and "off" where originally the same word but I don't believe the origins of the context in question go back that far.

 

[agentgonzo]

tblaxland, that makes a lot of sense. Many thanks for enlightening me (a definitive answer would still be great if we have any entomologists present). You learn a little every day - today, it's happened right at the start.

 

[David]

entomologist=one who studies insects
etymologist=one who studies the origin/derivation of words; a good dictionary will include the "etymology" of the word being defined, such as its original form in another language

Anyway, it seems to me that "off" implies removal. My experience with such as you have described, would be exemplified by "1/3 off," meaning that the item is to be sold for a price that is 1/3 less than before (i.e. - current selling price is 2/3 of the previous price; 1/3 of the price has been removed), or "$10 off," meaning that the item is to be sold for $10 less than previously.

I've not seen something like "5 off;" it may be that the monetary units are implied (i.e. - "5 off" means "5cents off the previous price, per pound" or something similar).

Your context of "things they want," is a bit confusing, but it may be that persons placing a large order will expect, or plan to request, a discount for large quantity, so that "I want 100 pounds of apples for 1 off" means, "I'm going to order 100 pounds of apples, and since I'm ordering so many apples, I will suggest to the seller that he provide me the apples at 1 cent per pound less than the price at which he would normally sell apples."

 

[Notebook]

I think the original question refers to the number of items in a list, like these:-
http://www.helid.desastres.net/?e=d...001-110utfZz-8-0-0&a=d&cl=CL1.6&d=Js2974e.3.9

not a discount, as in 10% off.

I don't think its used in this context much these days, it took a while to find that example. It did get used a lot in automobile parts lists, and exploded diagrams.
Where it was first used, and why, good questions! I have a hunch it may be military in origin, when they were first using internal combustion engines.

N.

 

[agentgonzo]

entomologist=one who studies insects
etymologist=one who studies the origin/derivation of words; a good dictionary will include the "etymology" of the word being defined, such as its original form in another language

Damn, I always get those confused!

Definitely the context that notebook has posted.