Launch News SpaceX Falcon 9 F3 COTS2+ Updates

[Capt_hensley]

Thats because Dragon was designed to be an LEO cargo capsule from its conception.

Orion was designed to be a BEO manned spacecraft from its conception, which is a much much more difficult thing to make.

Mix in some NASA bureaucracy and its no wonder that SpaceX launched ''first''. You can't compare apples with oranges.

And i'm not attacking SpaceX, by the way. I love what SpaceX are doing, and I really hope they get the manned craft developed soon!

And FYI LM have tested lots of hardware already. They have a working spacecraft on the ground which is validating all the techniques to build the real deal, it has passed all of its tests. They have also flown a pad-abort test, which was a great success.

What's the designation for the LM Ship? CEV?

Boeing uses the former CST-100 as the new MPCV, which replaced the CEV. Cheese and Rice this gets confusing...

Dragon is simple, it's either Dragon-M, Dragon-C or Dragon Lab, but at least it's all Dragon.

Re Dragon: LEO vs BEO, Dragon could use a larger SPS in place of the Trunk to get BEO capability, Flying 3 astronauts makes the room for the consumables inside the Dragon capsule for at least a 20 day trip, say to the moon, loiter, and return with time and fuel to spare, Falcon 9 Heavy would have the TLI stage and capacity to install a cargo module for the moon. Or maybe even a LM, alas we dream and hope, but in the end we must wait and see.

 

[GoForPDI]

What's the designation for the LM Ship? CEV?

Boeing uses the former CST-100 as the new MPCV, which replaced the CEV. Cheese and Rice this gets confusing...

Dragon is simple, it's either Dragon-M, Dragon-C or Dragon Lab, but at least it's all Dragon.

Re Dragon: LEO vs BEO, Dragon could use a larger SPS in place of the Trunk to get BEO capability, Flying 3 astronauts makes the room for the consumables inside the Dragon capsule for at least a 20 day trip, say to the moon, loiter, and return with time and fuel to spare, Falcon 9 Heavy would have the TLI stage and capacity to install a cargo module for the moon. Or maybe even a LM, alas we dream and hope, but in the end we must wait and see.

No, Boeing is still producing the CST-100, which is smaller than the MPCV, but larger than the Apollo CM.

LM is the main contractor for the MPCV.

And you say the Dragon could use certain hardware. None of this hardware has been seen, tested or confirmed to being used.

The MPCV has had all of these things designed, developed and LM will be testing them, if they have not tested some elements already.

I'm not saying Dragon couldn't do what an MPCV could do, what I am saying is that at this moment in time, Dragon would need to be upgraded, and by the time all the hardware needed for manned Dragon flight was flight-ready for beyond LEO flight, the MPCV would already be in operation.

 

[Capt_hensley]

Someone asked the question about Dragons CBM interface, and LIDS docking


A. The Dragon Cargo or Manned versions will both have the CBM Integral to the capsule
This standard is taken directly from the ISS, and is used to Berth, not dock with an object. Primarily ISS nodes.
B. If needed a CDA or Common Docking Adapter can be included in the stack. (according to Space X http://www.spacex.com/dragon.php from just below the first image)
C. The CDA can be any small diameter interface
IDSS/IDD, LIDS, APAS

Most likely it would be a LIDS/IDSS because the latest conference on docking standards has determined these will be used on all future vehicles that intend to participate in international maneuvers and docking.
http://internationaldockingstandard.com/download/IDSS_IDD_RevA_Final_051311.pdf

See also the Dragon Lab Fact sheet
http://www.spacex.com/downloads/dragonlab-datasheet.pdf

Hope this answers your question, whoever you were.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Someone asked the question about Dragons CBM interface, and LIDS docking


A. The Dragon Cargo or Manned versions will both have the CBM Integral to the capsule
This standard is taken directly from the ISS, and is used to Berth, not dock with an object. Primarily ISS nodes.
B. If needed a CDA or Common Docking Adapter can be included in the stack. (according to Space X http://www.spacex.com/dragon.php from just below the first image)
C. The CDA can be any small diameter interface
IDSS/IDD, LIDS, APAS

Most likely it would be a LIDS/IDSS because the latest conference on docking standards has determined these will be used on all future vehicles that intend to participate in international maneuvers and docking.
http://internationaldockingstandard.com/download/IDSS_IDD_RevA_Final_051311.pdf

See also the Dragon Lab Fact sheet
http://www.spacex.com/downloads/dragonlab-datasheet.pdf

Hope this answers your question, whoever you were.

No, not quite.

The cargo Dragon will have a CBM, but the crewed Dragon will use IDSS. This is so that the crewed version can un-dock quickly in an emergency.

The CDA has been cancelled, but the plan now is to attach a NASA Docking System (NDS) adapter to the PMAs (NDS is NASA's implementation of IDSS, which is a combination of APAS and LIDS).

 

[Capt_hensley]

^ Source please, so I may update my references. Thanks Pete. I remember now about the CDA, we talked about it before.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

^ Source please, so I may update my references. Thanks Pete. I remember now about the CDA, we talked about it before.

There isn't any written source for this stuff - if you rely only on written sources on official websites, then you will always be three years out of sync, since those webpages are so outdated.

 

[Capt_hensley]

There isn't any written source for this stuff - if you rely only on written sources on official websites, then you will always be three years out of sync, since those webpages are so outdated.

Cool, I can dig it! Been there done that.

But I'm writing a thesis paper, and verbal interviews aren't allowed unless they are captured on video/audio tape(DVD)? But then you have to use a transcript from a professional transcript maker. You must have the recorded interview, E-Transcript, and a printed copy of the transcript, ready to produce at the drop of a hat.

You see Dragon, and Falcon; current and future models, are a large part of Gateway Station construction and operations.

May I please quote you sir?

Thanks in advance, Darren

 

[orb]

July 7, 2011 - The second stage for the Space Exploration Technologies Corp., or SpaceX, Falcon 9 rocket is transported to the SpaceX hangar at Pad 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida:

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[orb]

Spaceflight Now: Hired private cargo ships booked to visit space station:

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NASA has "technically" agreed to combine SpaceX's next two demonstration flights of the company's Falcon 9 rocket and Dragon capsule, electing to send the next mission all the way to the space station, according to Bill Gerstenmaier, the head of the agency's human space programs.

"We technically have agreed with SpaceX that we want to combine those flights, but we haven't given them formal approval yet," Gerstenmaier said last week. "We still want to go through some more analysis to go take and look and define exactly what criteria makes up that combined mission, what objectives are there, what the go/no go criteria is."

The unmanned flight would blast off Nov. 30 from Cape Canaveral and reach the space station about one week later, where the lab's Canadian robot arm would reach out and grapple the approaching Dragon spaceship.

SpaceX and NASA are reviewing plans for the mission, which would deliver some limited cargo to the complex. If everything goes as planned, SpaceX's first operational resupply flight would launch in the first half of 2012.

Working under a funded Space Act Agreement with NASA, SpaceX tested the medium-lift Falcon 9 rocket on two flights in 2010. The second launch in December demonstrated the blunt Dragon capsule on two orbits around Earth, culminating in a successful splashdown and recovery in the Pacific Ocean.

Under the initial agreement, SpaceX's next mission would have approached within the vicinity of the space station before backing away after checking out navigation and communications equipment. On the eve of the December flight, SpaceX asked NASA to accelerate the demo mission schedule and fly the next Dragon to the space station.

"Overall, what we want to do is we want to get to cargo delivery as fast as we can, and if the systems are mature enough and the design is mature enough, combining those two flights is that best way to get cargo to ISS in the fastest manner possible," Gerstenmaier said.

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[Capt_hensley]

This is good news, glad it happened.

 

[garyw]

SpaceX given a date for ISS docking - Nov 30th

Fantastic news from SpaceX and a huge step up for SpaceX to be allowed (and trusted) to combine two demo flights into one. This also steps up the Dragon docking date from early 2012 to late this year.

Over the last several months, SpaceX has been hard at work preparing for our next flight — a mission designed to demonstrate that a privately-developed space transportation system can deliver cargo to and from the International Space Station (ISS). NASA has given us a Nov. 30, 2011 launch date, which should be followed nine days later by Dragon berthing at the ISS.

NASA has agreed in principle to allow SpaceX to combine all of the tests and demonstration activities that we originally proposed as two separate missions (COTS Demo 2 and COTS Demo 3) into a single mission. Furthermore, SpaceX plans to carry additional payloads aboard the Falcon 9’s second stage which will deploy after Dragon separates and is well on its way to the ISS. NASA will grant formal approval for the combined COTS missions pending resolution of any potential risks associated with these secondary payloads. Our team continues to work closely with NASA to resolve all questions and concerns.

This next mission represents a huge milestone not only for SpaceX, but also for NASA and the US space program. When the astronauts stationed on the ISS open the hatch and enter the Dragon spacecraft for the first time, it will mark the beginning of a new era in space travel.

Through continued private-public partnerships like the one that helped develop the Falcon 9 and Dragon system, commercial companies will transform the way we access space. Together, government and the private sector can simultaneously increase the reliability, safety and frequency of space travel, while greatly reducing the costs.

The update below highlights our recent progress towards the combined C2/C3 mission and missions beyond. From the 1,500 team members here at SpaceX, thank you for your continued support, and for joining us in this exciting, vital adventure.

Source and pictures: http://www.spacex.com/updates.php (scroll to August 15th, 2011)

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

This is the actual Dragon which will launch on November 30th - I can't wait to finally see this at the ISS. :thumbup:

 

[orb]

NASASpaceflight: ISS managers evaluating SpaceX via safety reviews ahead of debut arrival

Spaceflight Now: SpaceX fuels Falcon 9 rocket; Dragon to arrive next month

 

[dnt462]

The Additional satellites to be launched is worrying NASA, but cots 2 was to approach the station anyway. So why did this not get brought up sooner, or was it noted and I just miss it?

 

[elephantium]

This demo flight business puzzles me. I don't understand why they didn't just plan on two demo flights in the first place. What rationale could there be for needing to do a separate flyby orbit before proceeding with an actual docking? Was someone afraid that Dragon would come roaring in too fast and crash into the ISS or something?

 

[silent_protagonist]

This demo flight business puzzles me. I don't understand why they didn't just plan on two demo flights in the first place. What rationale could there be for needing to do a separate flyby orbit before proceeding with an actual docking? Was someone afraid that Dragon would come roaring in too fast and crash into the ISS or something?

That's exactly what they're worried about. After all it happened on Mir, and that was with an already proven spacecraft. Collisions in space are extremely dangerous and nobody wants to take any chances.

That said, I think the main reason why they planned for three flights was so that there would be room in the schedule if everything didn't go perfectly on the first two. i.e. "Hope for the best and plan for the worst." They're still going to do all the safety checks and practice runs that were originally planed for the two separate flights, but after the success of the first test (among other factors, probably), they're now confident enough that the safety checks will go smoothly that they can plan to go ahead and dock without having to stop and analyze what when wrong first.

 

[garyw]

That's exactly what they're worried about. After all it happened on Mir, and that was with an already proven spacecraft. Collisions in space are extremely dangerous and nobody wants to take any chances.

A proven spacecraft trying to do a new docking manoeuvre by an over tired crew.

ATV & HTV didn't need two flights to prove they could do so I suspect SpaceX decided to do the same. As long as they can demonstrate the abort criteria is all working and that the approach speeds are nice and slow I don't see any reason why the flights shouldn't be merged into one.

 

[elephantium]

Ah, that makes more sense, though I suspect there's a touch of politics involved, too -- SpaceX is the outsider in this game, so it has less trust from NASA personnel than other organizations.

For now, anyway. If you believe Musk's enthusiasm, that will all change within the next five years as SpaceX blows away all its competitors with such lowered costs that your head will spin

 

[Ark]

Hell yes, great news for SpaceX. A spacecraft ready to fly, dock, and deliver cargo ahead of schedule! When has NASA ever done that? :lol:

 

[orb]

RIA Novosti: Private U.S. capsule not to dock with ISS:

MISSION CONTROL (Moscow region), September 16 (RIA Novosti)

The U.S. private space capsule Dragon will conduct a flight near the International Space Station (ISS), but docking between them is not planned, Vladimir Solovyov, head of the Russian segment of the ISS mission control center said on Friday.

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