Gaming Space Engineers (now in BETA)

[HarvesteR]

IDK what to make of their dropping DX9 support as a player, but as a developer, I can readily understand it. It's hard enough to maintain one set of code. Each 'option' increases the amount of work needed to maintain the whole exponentially.

What with the new planets and AI and all, and SE having its own engine (which means there's nobody else to maintain it), I can see how it can be unworthwhile to keep supporting a platform, especially when so few players use it.

It comes down to a numbers game in the end. Is keeping the feature worth the added development drag it induces on the whole project?

You could say they're dropping stages.

Cheers

 

[Urwumpe]

They've sold their 1.5 million copies. They don't care about anything else. It doesn't matter where the game goes from here, they've made their money.

I wouldn't be sure if the 1.5 million copies are really important in comparison to the VRage engine getting commercial.

 

[APDAF]

They've sold their 1.5 million copies. They don't care about anything else. It doesn't matter where the game goes from here, they've made their money.

Keen Software House isn't EA

 

[RisingFury]

XP end of support date: April 8th 2014
DirectX 9.0c last update: June 2010
You can't go on supporting obsolete platforms forever.

If you start on DX9 and get people to buy into it, it's no fair to drop support for it mid development. Those people now can't play the game and can't get their money back.

---------- Post added at 13:05 ---------- Previous post was at 13:00 ----------

You said exactly the same thing about Spintires in the chatbox today. Stop being such a bloody cynic.

The Spintires developer deliberately tried to destroy their own game and hurt the consumers to get back at a publisher......... but I'm the cynic?


As far as Space Engineers goes, Early Access can be a good process. Quite a few games have demonstrated that. But it's also open to a lot of abuse - games that never get finished or, like SE drop support.

Yes, I know it's difficult to maintain multiple code sets, but you don't switch platforms midway through development, at least not without refunding the customers who won't be able to play. If they did that, I'd be fine with it.

 

[Urwumpe]

If you start on DX9 and get people to buy into it, it's no fair to drop support for it mid development. Those people now can't play the game and can't get their money back.

Wrong. It is not your business if people are not maintaining their hardware to be able to use upgraded versions of SE. If they don't want any upgrades of SE, they can stop them by disabling automatic updates in Steam.

And since I am only Angstrom away from going medieval on some people in my profession, who refuse to upgrade their systems and cause a lot of OSI layer 8 traffic for preventing that we remove SSL 2.0 support ASAP, I am pretty sure you can understand my lack of sympathy.

 

[RisingFury]

Wrong. It is not your business if people are not maintaining their hardware to be able to use upgraded versions of SE.

This isn't an upgrade - it's Early Access!! This is what I keep getting back to.

This isn't Space Engineers 2.0, it's Space Engineers 0.5!

 

[Urwumpe]

This isn't an upgrade - it's Early Access!!

They want to get updated versions of SE. Period. So they also have to maintain their system.

 

[Artlav]

maintain their system.

Since when is buying new hardware called "maintaining the system"?

 

[Urwumpe]

Since when is buying new hardware called "maintaining the system"?

Since you are using new software with new features. And that practically for free, because you are not forced to buy a SE2 in early access, because you only paid for SE.

 

[Lucy]

This isn't an upgrade - it's Early Access!! This is what I keep getting back to.

This isn't Space Engineers 2.0, it's Space Engineers 0.5!

You've just defeated your own point. Space Engineers is in Early Access. You can't complain about fundamental changes in an Early Access product - it's in Early Access! This isn't a released product, they can change whatever they need to - that's the whole point of EA.

 

[Gerdih]

I played the game until they broke multiplayer. And since then, I keep waiting and being active on the Keen forums. I planned to build my first custom PC rig for a while by now and not just because I wanna play SE. I totally understand they stop supporting Dx9 and XP.

 

[RisingFury]

They want to get updated versions of SE. Period. So they also have to maintain their system.

Not true: If you're sold something based on one set of specs, the specs can't be changed half way through. It's not fair without offering a refund.


This isn't a new version of a complete product. It's a new version of an *incomplete* product. That's what we keep dancing around.

Payment came first - then completion. If the final specs don't match what you paid for, that's fraud.

---------- Post added at 21:44 ---------- Previous post was at 21:43 ----------

You've just defeated your own point. Space Engineers is in Early Access. You can't complain about fundamental changes in an Early Access product - it's in Early Access! This isn't a released product, they can change whatever they need to - that's the whole point of EA.

This translates to: "It's EA. You don't like it? FU!"

What happened to "Customer's always right!"? Seems like it's been replace with "We only want your money, suckers!"

 

[Hielor]

Steam early access disclaimer on every single early access game page:

This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development.

There are no guarantees about the final state of the game or even if the game will reach a final state.

 

[Lucy]

Not true: If you're sold something based on one set of specs, the specs can't be changed half way through. It's not fair without offering a refund.


This isn't a new version of a complete product. It's a new version of an *incomplete* product. That's what we keep dancing around.

Payment came first - then completion. If the final specs don't match what you paid for, that's fraud.

But you have exactly what you paid for; early access to Space Engineers. No final product was specified, only that you get to play now. The game you're playing isn't yours, it's theirs. You don't own either the game or any right to dictate how it's developed; see your EULA for more details.

This translates to: "It's EA. You don't like it? FU!"

No, it translates to "Read the product description before committing funds to obtain something different to what's being sold". See Heilor's point above.

What happened to "Customer's always right!"? Seems like it's been replace with "We only want your money, suckers!"

All businesses have just wanted your money, for as long as there has been business. This isn't new. That's how business works.

Really, the alternative is that we don't have Space Engineers at all, because Keen didn't release Early Access to drum up funding to complete the game. I think the majority of the people who've played the game would agree that's a less preferred option to what we have now.

Perhaps we should put the discussion about the merits and perils of Early Access games into its own thread, there seems to be lots to talk about there.

 

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[RisingFury]

Steam early access...

I don't have a problem with Early Access! I love Early Access, because it makes it easier for devs to make games and it allows people to take part of an evolving game.

But this is abuse of Early Access. That's what I'm against. There are lines one should not cross and SE crossed it.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

My personal standard for Early Access gaming is Kerbal Space Program. That was VERY well run, and I was quite happy with it. Maybe it's too high of a bar, but that's my standards.

As for SE, I'm going to wait until they stop adding features and start fixing the broken stuff they've been overlooking. Some performance optimization would be nice, too.

 

[RisingFury]

My personal standard for Early Access gaming is Kerbal Space Program. That was VERY well run, and I was quite happy with it. Maybe it's too high of a bar, but that's my standards.

Precisely! KSP is a great example of an Early Access game. Even Minecraft, which was buggy as hell even after 1.0 is still a great example of EA.

The minimum specs may have changed, but at no point was anyone locked out - keep in mind that hacks could also be made to improve performance.

With SE's change from DX9 to DX11, no hack will save it.


It'd also be ok if they offered a refund for those who can no longer play. If they did that, I'm fine with the change.

 

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