Question Should Elon Musk Launch his own mission to the moon ?

[dman]

Should Elon Musk launch a mission to the moon on his own , page 1
Looks like the BIDEN administration is about the trash the US space program, just like Obama did

In the past few weeks been messing with Musk and launch schedule for his Starship tests

I figure if Musk wants ti give these clowns a giant middle finger should announce a circumlunar mission using a modified Dragon launched on a Falcon Heavy

I know Musk said did not want to man rate the Falcon Heavy, preferring to go to Starship. But looks like Starship will not be ready for a few more years

Dragon and Falcon Heavy are ready now, In fact few years ago Japanese billionaire was ready to fund a circumlunar mission using a modified Dragon

Constraints appear to be in Falcon Heavy core stage, and availability of launch facilities at Cape Canaveral

This would be big morale boost for country suffering from Covid 19 lockdowns ( can go to restaurant, movie theatre, sporting events , Etc)

It would also put the Chicom in their place - similar to late 1960'd when NASA decided to roll the dice and go for lunar mission on Apollo 8 to beat Soviet attempt using their Zond spacecraft . In fact was a big risk as SATURN V had only flown twice and previous launch was near disaster
Excessive vibrations caused 2 engines to shutdown in second stage and 2rd stage failed to restart

The Dragon spacecraft would require modifications - heavier heat shielding, long range communications for lunar distance , extra supplies as Dragon currenting designed for short ferry hops in LEO

What do you think ??

 

[N_Molson]

It would also put the Chicom in their place

seriously ?

 

[Pioneer]

Yes. The more competition we have in going to space, the better it will be, both public and private. Let's kick this new space race into high gear!

 

[Urwumpe]

Should Elon Musk launch a mission to the moon on his own , page 1
Looks like the BIDEN administration is about the trash the US space program, just like Obama did

WE ARE ALL DOOMED!!!!11

Seriously: First of all, its 2021, and it obviously is still there. And I just say Augustine committee. Obama did the precisely right thing. He stopped riding a dead horse.

Review of United States Human Space Flight Plans Committee - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Biden is equally willed to stop riding dead horses, well, some weird programs might then disappear for a while.

But I doubt it will be Orion. And if Orion is kept, the SLS will have high chances to survive. And it also is doubtful he will bail out of the ISS program before all others.

 

[Thunder Chicken]

Well, SpaceX just got awarded the contract to get elements of the Lunar Gateway to Moon orbit on a Falcon Heavy.

NASA picks SpaceX Falcon Heavy to launch 1st Gateway station pieces to the moon

NASA has selected SpaceX to deliver the first two segments of the moon-orbiting Gateway space station for its upcoming Artemis program, which aims to put astronauts back on the moon.

www.space.com

And they also got a NASA contract to develop Starship as a lunar lander for them.

SpaceX wins large NASA contract for Starship Moon missions

Destination: Moon.

futurism.com

Now, I don't have an MBA, but I'm thinking giving the middle finger to one of your better customers probably isn't a smart business move. They are NASA's only American-sourced access to LEO currently, crew or cargo, until CST-100 flies (if that ever happens - Boeing isn't in great shape these days).

Unless the Ambien Walrus strikes again, Elon and NASA are bosom buddies for the foreseeable future.

 

[cannon_gray]

It could be difficult to convince Elon Musk to start a lunar mission cause he is a big fan of Mars and wants to be buried there.

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

I think the US space program is doing fine. They operate the ISS, train astronauts, develope a new manned launch system and spacecraft and boost private companies while there are 7 people on orbit right now. There has never been so much going on simultaneously I guess. The Shuttle, as awesome as it was, was aging. And Constellation was something like Apollo reloaded, with a very scary launch vehicle (Ares 1). I think the space program is on a good path. Elon Musk a significant part of it because his company got funded when it was actually close to bankrupt. SpaceX profits from the hard work and experiences of the aerospace industries built during the past decades.

 

[cannon_gray]

I think the US space program is doing fine.

If not taking into consideration that they plan to launch the first stage of the Artemis mission within a few years and they have nothing ready, even their famous SLS which is being developing for years without success.

 

[Urwumpe]

If not taking into consideration that they plan to launch the first stage of the Artemis mission within a few years and they have nothing ready, even their famous SLS which is being developing for years without success.

What do you mean with "without success?" Do you have any idea what they are developing and how big the budget really is compared to what they are supposed to do?

I mean, if SpaceX does something less complicated in a similar long period of time with a much bigger budget, its "oh, SpaceX is a newcomer, celebrate them." If NASA has to do the same with their limited resources and way more complicated bureaucratic processes (because its a government agency, that for example has much stricter codes of conduct to prevent corruption and ensure transparency that SpaceX absolutely lacks. Or which exists in first place for scientific reasons and thus is measured by the science it produces, not by the rockets).

Does anybody still remember how much time has passed until SpaceX first launched the Falcon 9 without any reuse - including the previous work done on the similar Falcon 5?

Just for some numbers: The full SLS development, including all political nonsense, public bidding and development deadends, did cost 20 billion USD since the first budget in 2011. And that for a rocket, that NASA and the US government (under Obama) never wanted in first place, but had been pushed by local politicians to keep expensive dinosaurs like Boeing in existence.

And it is not even sure, how much of this rocket will ever fly.

The Orion spacecraft costs about the same amount, is much further developed and just got about the same amount of funding in total (21 billion) over a 50% longer development time (since its budget started already in 2006 as CEV)

 

[ChrisRowland]

Could Elon get to the moon?

Could Starship do it? It would launch and refuel in orbit. This would give it enough dV to get to the moon, land and take off but it would then need to refuel in low lunar orbit. It would need 1.04 km/s more. Plus enough for the flip and land.

Perhaps topping up after TLI would work. The tanker would get onto a free return orbit.

I'm getting the Starship dV from BrianJ's starship and the dV needed from Wikipaedia, going via the Lunar Gateway orbit. ALso assuming that a Starship can cope with a reentry at lunar transfer speeds, that's about twice the energy.

Getting to Mars isn't a lot more difficult, aerobraking can be used for the landing and the plan is to refuel on Mars.

 

[dman]

A modified Dragon capsule could be lanched in a year, sooner if things go right using a Falcon Heavy booster

Go back over 50 years - In 1965 the US could have launched a 2 man Gemini capsule on a circum-lunar mission using a 3 stage Saturn I (Cntaur upper stage) There were serious studies concerning this Was eventually killed as Apollo program was in process and this would interfer with Apollo

Musk launching Dragon is equivalent

 

[barrygolden]

I think I have seen and it was an addon on in orbiter of a Gemini launched on a Titan 3c and using a trans upper stage to fly around the Moon , the upper stage was used with the Titan 3 for DOD payloads
The Dragon heat shield would need to be beefed up to fly around the Moon

 

[Urwumpe]

I think I have seen and it was an addon on in orbiter of a Gemini launched on a Titan 3c and using a trans upper stage to fly around the Moon , the upper stage was used with the Titan 3 for DOD payloads
The Dragon heat shield would need to be beefed up to fly around the Moon

This mission never flew, so we can't really tell, how successful it would have been and what modifications would have been needed to do that. Its an idea, not a fact. For example, it is known that Dragon has no backup to INS+GPS navigation. That means its without a reliable navigation platform beyond GEO. Also it uses a strapdown navigation system, which is cheaper and simpler, but looses accuracy faster than a stable platform. That would be another major change to Dragon, also by volume. Its also the part were Gemini was also out of the picture. While it had a better INS, it had only limited ways to realign the platform.

 

[barrygolden]

Found this picture
there was a plan for Gemini 10 or 12 to do this but by then Apollo was well under way and was suppost to fly in 1967 then Apollo 1 fire

 

[Urwumpe]

Found this picture
there was a plan for Gemini 10 or 12 to do this but by then Apollo was well under way and was suppost to fly in 1967 then Apollo 1 fire

Its just a model. Pete Conrad prepared a small report about this during Gemini, about 3 additional missions. But it never got further away, one problem was that the capsule was 600 kg too heavy for the mission and needed massive changes. Thus, no go ahead, instead the crew got the opportunity to test Gemini 11 in a high orbit. The planned launch for the lunar Gemini mission was already in April 1967 - only 20 months later Apollo 8 flew to the moon, with much less risk.