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[PeterRoss]

I think the russian space program (future launcher and spacecraft(s)) is being developed in secret (something similar is happening for the USAF X-37A/B/C) probably they are worried of possible sabotages and/or espionage.

It is much more probable that they're secretly not developing anything, I'm afraid.

 

[Alfastar]

Well, I got less and less trust that there ever become a Angara. Why there ever started with the whole Angara project?

 

[santy86]

You are kidding, relieve me ? :dry:

I'll relieve you now :lol: Don't get me wrong dude, no conspiracy theories here. Though the fact that there has been space-tech espionage from various country, aimed especially against US companies (Lockheed Martin and Boeing) but also against russia, is undeniable.
I'm referring to the various claims of cyber-espionage which the world has known in recent years. I guess, that because of these cyber-espionage events, the US and Russia are doing High-tech R&D in secret, and under the cover of military programs, to keep the stuff classified until the "operative status" (X-37C might be the replacement of the space shuttle for LEO missions, while Orion should be more about Moon/Mars missions)


P.S. I don't even know whether Angara actually exists anymore. By now, the original Angara concep should be "junk" of the 90s, maybe there's something else going on behind the curtains.

 

[N_Molson]

I'm getting a bit pessimistic about Angara too. Proton still works well, and with the new cryogenic upper stage, it will get even better. I think they wanted to do something like the US EELVs, but don't really have the use for them with the old but very reliable Soyuz and Proton.

It would have an use if a serious replacement for Soyuz-TMA was planned, but things seem rather foggy in that direction too. Again, TMA works very well, is compatible with an extremely reliable launcher, they have an incredible flight experience with that combo, and it's capacity is reasonable given the ISS needs (normal operation of the station has been sustained even after the Shuttle retirement...)

Or if there was deep space exploration projects... But nothing on the horizon there...

 

[MattBaker]

with the old but very reliable Soyuz and Proton.

And cheaper one as well, especially since it doesn't need any R&D anymore.
In the end it's always about money and if you already have two working options, which are cheap and tested in more than 2000 launches combined, why change the running system for billions?
It might be argued if the Proton is reliable: 67 launches since 2006 and 7 failures results in 89.55%, although only one was a real problem with the Proton (2007, JCSAT-11: 1st/2nd stage separation failure) and the rest was trouble with the Briz-M/DM-3, so maybe the Proton is reliable but its upper stages are not.

Although you also have to say that the Angara would bring new possibilities for Russian spaceflight. The 7-engine version would have performances up to 40mT to LEO, nearly twice as much as the Proton. A nation/space agency that starts with martian/lunar probes again and surely has plans about Russian moon landings in mind could use such a lift capability.

 

[Urwumpe]

The advantage of the Angara would also be economic, since the Proton uses specialized engines which require their own special assembly lines. The Angara would simplify this a lot.

 

[N_Molson]

The advantage of the Angara would also be economic, since the Proton uses specialized engines which require their own special assembly lines. The Angara would simplify this a lot.

Honestly, I'm not sure. A new launcher means a lot of new R&D costs, as said above, and at least, in those assembly lines, lost bolts don't end in the turbopumps. That counts. And there's all the flight experience. And the juicy contracts with ILS.

I'm absolutely not against the idea a new launcher, but in the mind of the very conservative russian space program managers, I think there is little benefits and a lot of risks in such a transition. "When it works, don't fix it" seems to be their motto, and well, until now it works rather well.

 

[Urwumpe]

I'm absolutely not against the idea a new launcher, but in the mind of the very conservative russian space program managers, I think there is little benefits and a lot of risks in such a transition. "When it works, don't fix it" seems to be their motto, and well, until now it works rather well.

Well, it is pretty much an old-timer. The toxic fuel combination gets more and more uncommon, now that Russia also switches to solid fuels for ICBMs. The engines are special, and even if you already know them well and have usually pretty well running assembly lines, this does not mean that you can't carry the experience over to the new engines.

Also, the ground infrastructure is still a second generation one. While less people involved than for previous rockets, it is still requiring much more manual labor than third generation launch complexes, like Energia used or Zenit uses.

 

[Alfastar]

Well, why Russia stopped with the Energia a long time ago? It is even in some points a better rocket then the Angara.

 

[santy86]

Well, why Russia stopped with the Energia a long time ago? It is even in some points a better rocket then the Angara.

Because the soviet union collapsed and the resulting economical crash, stopped the Energia-Buran program altogether.
Even Energia, today would have to be redesigned from scratch probably with new construction materials and new technologies/computers/hydraulics and so forth. The original Energia would not be advantageous today, the same way as the Space Shuttle wasn't a couple of years ago.

 

[N_Molson]

Yes, like if the USA were developping an heavy launcher with Shuttle-derived technologies... Oh wait, they actually do it

 

[SiberianTiger]

http://www.dkvartal.ru/news/kosmich...kovodit-glava-avtovaza-igor-komarov-236797714

CEO of Lada car producer will head entire Russian space industry.

07.10.2013 09:01

The Cabinet and Executive Office of the President of Russia have decided on who shall head the newly created United Rocket & Space Corporation and Roscosmos after imminent Popovkin's resignation.

According to Vedomosti newspaper, Popovkin's vacant place will be occupied by his deputy on scientific research Oleg Ostapenko, and the head of URCS (Russian title and acronym: Объединённая ракетно-космическая корпорация - ОРКК) will be Igor Komarov, currently a CEO of AvtoVAZ corp., producer of Lada car brand.

Popovkin's resignation is a result of the ongoing reform in the Roscosmos administration. In addition, he carries blame for the multiple accidents which happened over the last 5 years to Russian assets in space and launch services. Some sources say that Popovkin was unable to get along with Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin who is in charge of the space industry.

----

In addition, share of responsibility of Roscosmos shall be greatly reduced in favor of the URCS...

 

[PeterRoss]

CEO of Lada car producer will head entire Russian space industry.

What a pity it's not the 1st of April today:facepalm:

 

[N_Molson]

CEO of Lada car producer will head entire Russian space industry.

I absolutely don't know what's Lada current status in Russia, so I didn't commented, but I must say I'm more than a little concerned... Smells like another post-USSR messy privatization...

 

[PeterRoss]

I absolutely don't know what's Lada current status in Russia...

You better not know it.

Why the hell just freaking everything what's going on in Russia seems to only worsening the things around? Ah, it's off-topic anyway.

 

[N_Molson]

Right, I don't want to push it off-topic further but just one thing I'm very suspicious about : is "CEO of Lada car producer" one of the good friends of Vladimir ?

Nevermind, I already know the answer. :facepalm:

Maybe we will see the deorbit of the ISS in the following years, after one or two Soyuz catastrophic failures.

 

[PeterRoss]

I just don't believe anymore we'll be able to remain a spaceworthy nation for long. I want to believe it, but I can't.

 

[N_Molson]

I just don't believe anymore we'll be able to remain a spaceworthy nation for long. I want to believe it, but I can't.

Then nobody will remain. Given how things are evolving, we could say the same of USA. And despite of announcements, China is still far from a mature space program.

 

[PeterRoss]

Yeah. Maybe I should go check this good news site after all.

 

[Urwumpe]

According to Vedomosti newspaper, Popovkin's vacant place will be occupied by his deputy on scientific research Oleg Ostapenko, and the head of URCS (Russian title and acronym: Объединённая ракетно-космическая корпорация - ОРКК) will be Igor Komarov, currently a CEO of AvtoVAZ corp., producer of Lada car brand.

I am sure, it has something to do with this video: