News Raspberry Pi computer, is it rational?

[Notebook]

Raspberry Pi used to steal data from Nasa lab

Not what we want to see:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-48743043

 

[jedidia]

I don't quite get it... for the device to be vulnerable to attack from outside, it would have had to have its own port forewarding from the gateway, otherwise you could only get to it if you already got into the network. Unless it was compromised already before it got into the network.

 

[mahdavi3d]

 

[Notebook]

A compact experiment aimed at enhancing cybersecurity for future space missions is operational in Europe’s Columbus module of the International Space Station, running in part on a Raspberry Pi Zero computer costing just a few euros.

www.esa.int/spaceinimages/Images/2019/07/Cryptography_ICE_Cube_experiment

Didn't know the Raspberry had got into orbit, good for it!

 

[Marijn]

Seeing how popular live game streamers are these days, I was wondering if it would be possible to live stream outdoor activities with a Raspberry Pi 4. In my case, the activity would be gliding, puting some extra restraints on the project. At this moment, I am unsure whether terrestrial 5G networks are accessible from 5000 feet or so. If not, I expect satellite internet coverage to become available in the not so distant future.

I am thinking of a 2 camera setup. A main one and another for a smaller inlet on the screen. Also, I want to be able to create an overlay to display telemetry.

I think it would be possible to parse user comments and extract information from it like latlon's.

Does anyone have experience with such a hobby project? Do you think it's doable? What OS would you choose?

 

[tl8]

In normal countries with hills, coverage at 5000ft is certain. I am unsure if that is the case in NL. I would assume that it probably is. You could always have a base station. LOS is probably likely most of the time.

The Pi can't encode video very well. This is probably going to be your main problem. Look at FPV for drones. That would use similar technology.

 

[Artlav]

a Raspberry Pi Zero computer costing just a few euros

A few? Somehow that feels like an understatement for a 27 euro board.

 

[Marijn]

In normal countries with hills, coverage at 5000ft is certain. I am unsure if that is the case in NL. I would assume that it probably is.

So flat countries aren't normal countries? Haha. I think there is some truth to that. In NL, the GSM network is optimized for the flat land. It takes fewer cell towers which reduces the cost for the operators. Voice works up to 1500 feet. SMS can be used up to 2000 feet. I'm afraid it won't be any different for 5G.

You could always have a base station. LOS is probably likely most of the time.

The idea is to stream complete cross-country flights from start to finish. These flights cover distances up to 750km or even more. So I would need continuous internet access, even when crossing the border with Germany. I am not sure whether that prsents a problem by itself.

The Pi can't encode video very well. This is probably going to be your main problem. Look at FPV for drones. That would use similar technology.

That's a bummer but good to know. I thought the Pi's would be excellent for encoding video. FPV drones use low res camera's and broadcast an analog signal. Converting the signal to digital already causes to much delay to control a FPV drone.

So it's a bit of a bold idea.

 

[kuddel]

Is it worth it, being live? If you "just" record it and put it online after the flight, it might be enough.
The interaction with the net-crowd should be very limited anyway[*].


[*] At least if you're flying over parts in germany where I life ...
I don't like to be hit by a glider whose pilot was figuring out why the TCP/IP stack of his RasPi isn't fully functional

 

[jedidia]

You are somewhat underestimating the resources required for live video encoding. Without dedicated hardware support, you either have a powerful machine, or you're out in the rain. And while the Pi4 now has a decent *de*coder built in, its encoder sucks balls.

You might be able to do HD using an HDMI-to-USB encoder, but editing the video on the fly in real time on a Pi is right out of the question. It's not a supercomputer!

 

[Marijn]

Is it worth it, being live? If you "just" record it and put it online after the flight, it might be enough.

It's actually a very old dream of the gliding community to have a way to watch grand prix competition flights live. That's the broader idea behind it. If it works and is easy to use, it won't be for just myself eventually.

As a spectator at gliding competitions, you only see the planes leave, stay away for many hours and come back (could be midnight when the arrive with a trailer). You don't even see a start. Imagine watching F1 by only seeing the formation lap and podium ceremony. That has been the situation in gliding since it became a sport. It's one (of more) reasons gliding is a niche.

Some ideas have been tried already. None of them were really succesful and none were ever repeated as far as I know. This 7yr old video announces a way to follow along:

It relies on helicopters carrying a camera- and relay platform, which is, as one could expect, not very practicable.

But what if you would have a micro computer, powerful enough to stream video and sensor data and interact with a back end? That opens up new possibilities.

But there is something else too. I can't help but notice that quite a few streamers on YouTube are very succesful by just accepting donations and make a living out of something they enjoy. This intrigues me. Try to sell an app in an app-store somehere. Quite a few people just deny to pay for apps albeit just a few cents but happily throw many at content creators without them even asking for it and get engaged in 'bidding wars' without even expecting a return. The world is changing.

It's logical that something already happening on a PC like gaming gets streamed first. But eventually, other activities will follow.

I don't like to be hit by a glider whose pilot was figuring out why the TCP/IP stack of his RasPi isn't fully functional

Haha. But that's an important point you're making. I envision the end result as a little box without buttons and displays. Maybe a LED indicating power. It should boot and start doing its thing.

 

[kuddel]

As a spectator at gliding competitions, you only see the planes leave, stay away for many hours and come back (could be midnight when the arrive with a trailer). You don't even see a start. Imagine watching F1 by only seeing the formation lap and podium ceremony.

I fully agree. It would be very nice for enthusiasts to watch live how the field of competing gliders do their thing.
The requirements however might not be so easy (yet).


Nevertheless it is interesting what exactly is possible by now with current technology. If the RasPi is a clever choice however is doubtful.

But making a proof of concept (even if its just a 320×200 pixel stream) seems like an interesting idea :thumbup:.

 

[jedidia]

But what if you would have a micro computer, powerful enough to stream video and sensor data and interact with a back end? That opens up new possibilities.

If you can do the actual editing in a backend, the whole thing becomes more realistic. But... what exactly speaks against just using cellphones? If you use any one-board computer, you'll need a router additionally, you'll need a camera, and you'll need a power supply. A good cellphone will provide all of that out of the box, with more processing power.

 

[Notebook]

Do gliders carry transponders? Would it be possible to interrogate these somewhere(GoogleEarth) and make a realtime display of the relevant aircraft?

N.

 

[kuddel]

Regarding Hardware: I would place my bets on a dedicated encoder chip. Something like one that's inside one of these: https://www.banggood.com/H_264-Vide...TV-Videoencoder-Encoder-Module-p-1520408.html
But for a GSM transmission of course....

 

[Marijn]

You are somewhat underestimating the resources required for live video encoding.

Yes, that's what I learned from you and after following Kuddel's link. I thought the Pi4 would be able to do such a job. My search led me into the world of FPGA's. That's definitely not going to be my thing..

But... what exactly speaks against just using cellphones?

There are a couple of practical issues with the use of smartphones. The device needs to be secured tightly. In gliders, there are usually some M5-bolt attachment points on the sides. In case of an emergency, you need to be able to release the canopy and jump without getting entangled in wires. A smartphone will need external power, and it's low weight will probably make it shake all the time. It will also be difficult to aim it at the point of interest (I'am thinking of a headstrap for the main camera which connects wirelessly, and a 2nd camera inside the device facing at the pilot). The thing with smartphones is, that you'll eventually start messing around with it. The acceptance of a device without any user interface will be much easier.

Do gliders carry transponders? Would it be possible to interrogate these somewhere(GoogleEarth) and make a realtime display of the relevant aircraft?
N.

Unfortunately, yes. They became mandatory only recently. We use Mode-S transponders. Gliders who also carry a FLARM (collision avoidance system) can send the GPS signal from the FLARM to the transponder. I think the Dutch Military provides a feed with all gliders. This tracker works with that data: http://live.glidernet.org/#c=52.47368,6.34272&z=13&s=1&l=a

 

[Enjo]

Take note: Rpi4 is a bit different beast:
https://blog.hackster.io/do-you-nee...ling-with-the-new-raspberry-pi-4-6d523ca12453

Every time a new Raspberry Pi is released there are mutterings about the thermal control of the new board. But this time, it looks like it might well be necessary to add some passive, or even active, cooling to the Raspberry Pi to keep it from thermally throttling if it is under heavy load for extended periods of time.

I think I will buy one, but this time without a plastic case.

 

[Marijn]

I think I will buy one, but this time without a plastic case.

This case keeps the 4 cool:
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-tvuvTpUkA"]Cooling Case for the Raspberry Pi 4[/ame]

 

[Enjo]

A great find. The price is not that high, considering, that it's a very elegant solution to a real problem, and that you have to spend a similar amount of money for an another case and cooling methods.

 

[Artlav]

More and more it feels like they are going the wrong way with this. You could get a real desktop computer for the price of this little board, which would be many times faster and responsive.

On the other hand, it's power consumption, heat dissipation and price raises eyebrows for the "edge computing" tasks.

Almost as if they managed to get stuck in a no mans land between use cases.