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Urwumpe said:
Looks like Oracle just killed Java for the open-source world. I doubt all projects can afford conforming to Oracles non-commercial support roadmap.
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I thought about this, but at the end it doesn't seem so bad? I mean, an iteration cycle of 3 years is not exactly lightspeed. Java's got to do something to try to stay relevant...
 
jedidia said:
I thought about this, but at the end it doesn't seem so bad? I mean, an iteration cycle of 3 years is not exactly lightspeed. Java's got to do something to try to stay relevant...
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Its an cycle of 6 months in the new model. You have to adapt your libraries very 6 months to the new language standard. We are not speaking about JRE fixes or changes to the security providers there or a new compiler, but language standard. Including a new JDK.



Thats insane. C++ runs great with an update every decade. You don't need to worry that your source code will suddenly be refused as obsolete. Or that you need to pay for running old C++ programs on your machine.
 
RisingFury said:
I'm so glad I spent my time learning the C++ powerhouse. If I need a "quick and dirty" bit of code, there's always Python.
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I still like Java in case of web services, great number of high quality libraries there, but I suspect, its time to switch to a new technology.



I only do Python now since the beginning of the year and I still hate it. takes a lot of time finding the only line among thousand in a file, in which a tab instead of four whitespaces was used...
 
Its an cycle of 6 months in the new model. You have to adapt your libraries very 6 months to the new language standard.
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So... you can't just use the standard of the current stable release that runs for 3 years? Then I got that a bit wrong.
I don't really see this being enforcable. You compile a library with the JDK LTS version it was developed for and there should be no problem... it's not like Oracle is going to send you seize and desist letters because your open source project isn't up to date.

I'm so glad I spent my time learning the C++ powerhouse.
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I'm very glad I learned C++ too, if mostly for the understanding of how code works it gave me. Professionally I've never used it. While Java as a language is only marginally more convenient than C++, the JVM is a hell of a platform for anything that doesn't need the best possible performance, and the Java ecosystem is a juggernaut .NET has so far unsuccsessfuly attempted to displace. And Kotlin is on a good way to replace Java as the goto language for starting new projects on the JVM, and it's the most beautifully designed language I have ever seen.

Basically the only reasons not to develop your server architecture on the JVM are .NET legacy code, contractual obligations or some *serious* need for speed.
 
jedidia said:
So... you can't just use the standard of the current stable release that runs for 3 years? Then I got that a bit wrong.
I don't really see this being enforcable. You compile a library with the JDK LTS version it was developed for and there should be no problem... it's not like Oracle is going to send you seize and desist letters because your open source project isn't up to date.
Click to expand...


Not for free, as I understand a longer article. Only the 6 month versions should be for free. LTS support only for paying customers.
 
Hm, i haven't seen java applets on the web in over a decade. The last java project i'm aware of is Minecraft, and that got started a while ago. Is it really still used somewhere outside of legacy systems?
 
Artlav said:
Hm, i haven't seen java applets on the web in over a decade. The last java project i'm aware of is Minecraft, and that got started a while ago. Is it really still used somewhere outside of legacy systems?
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I sure hope you haven't seen java applets on the web lately. They were a terrible idea! :lol:


Java is used in a vast number of backends. If you interact with a web-application (that is, something a bit more complex than just a website) or a REST-API, it's usually written in either PhP (for the masochistic), .NET (for those who don't care if they have to pay OS licensing costs for every server they run), or Java, with occasional stuff like Node.js and Ruby thrown in...
 
Also quite many applications that cooperate with Germanys eID system are Java or Java web start applications (The successor to the applets)

---------- Post added at 20:41 ---------- Previous post was at 20:39 ----------
jedidia said:
Java is used in a vast number of backends. If you interact with a web-application (that is, something a bit more complex than just a website) or a REST-API, it's usually written in either PhP (for the masochistic), .NET (for those who don't care if they have to pay OS licensing costs for every server they run), or Java, with occasional stuff like Node.js and Ruby thrown in...
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And far more, if you use an application server in an enterprise, running multiple web services in parallel, its almost always Java. There is no comparable system in .NET yet.
 
Hm, guess that's an entire slice of the industry i'm not aware of. From both HPC and telecom side of things all enterprise level systems i worked with and/or heard of were written in either C/C++ or Fortran, and i'm yet to see a web site that isn't written in PHP or ASP/.NET.
 
Urwumpe said:
And far more, if you use an application server in an enterprise, running multiple web services in parallel, its almost always Java. There is no comparable system in .NET yet.
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I have zero experience with microservice architecture and horizontal scaling in .NET, so I have no idea what the capabilities look like, but stuff like Camel, JMS and Hazelcast definitely make Java extremely powerful in that regard.

Though I think Camel is past its prime now. Wonder what will be the next big thing to fill the gap. Hopefully something with a decent DSL that doesn't make debugging such a pain...


From both HPC and telecom side of things all enterprise level systems i worked with and/or heard of were written in either C/C++ or Fortran
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Telecommunications usually work at a pretty low level, so I'm not surprised at all. You don't really want Java for low-level stuff where you're working with gritty bits.
 
jedidia said:
I have zero experience with microservice architecture and horizontal scaling in .NET, so I have no idea what the capabilities look like, but stuff like Camel, JMS and Hazelcast definitely make Java extremely powerful in that regard.
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Dropwizard is a pretty popular choice for microservices now, if you are not wanting to go the whole Java EE path.



Also, Reactive Programming is a pretty big topic now in Java. But there are also frameworks for it in other languages.
 
I'm already home, what happens then?

N.
 
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