Orbiter Shipyard Project: Gathering ideas

One thing i wanted to consider is, will the vessels made by the generator work on the different systems.

Here is a sample of a vessel made by the generator:
http://orbides.1gb.ru/orbf/osh_dll_tst-081118.zip
Nothing fancy, just a default test.
It should have a mesh, full set of thrusters and exhausts (hanging from mid-vacuum), as well as two animations - G and J keys. The states of the animations should be saveable in the scenario, vessels should act independent.

Tests of whether it runs on your system or not are welcome, just want to make sure i'm not on a futile endeavor.
...
Sounds like an idea. Is SC3 DLL being developed now, or is it indeed abandoned?
If so, it might be worth a shot, otherwise it will be a little rude.

I downloaded it on windows vista home basic... works good, but is the engine flare supposed to go on for ever (exaggeration)? And is there supposed to be smoke contrails on it when in the atmosphere, there is none.

Also, (for spacecraft3) I really hadn't thought about the fact that he may still be working on it...

That's why I'm not so enthusiastic about prefab components.
What's the creativity in that?
I think people will get bored with it pretty quick as all ships will become looking very uniform.
Without it, you still have to build a ship (which can be a real pain if you wanna do it good ) and understand how it should behave.

Test with XP professional same as Dig Gil.

I thought the point was that you could make your own mesh parts and upload it to your shipyard to use as parts to a ship.
 
New tests reveal a funny center of gravity on the default "spacecraft" (may I call it that?). Just see it roll at great speed and stop gently on the press of "Kill Rot".
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Artlav, would the Shipyard have costumizable exhaust?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the easiest way to do the basic stuff would be a "Windows wizard" type interface (...)

That could be used at the start of the Shipyard. I'll post a diagram with my idea later, now I need to log out.

NEW POST UPDATE

So here's the Diagram:
orbitershipyarddiagrambm7.png

The comments:
*Hypothesis for possible Orbiter development in the future.
**Adjusting the program options for the selected choice.
***If the Shipyard needs/makes use of Vinka's AddOns in anyway (I don't know:unknown:)
****This is only used if "***" is true; These instructions are default only, the possible result depends on how Artlav programs the Shipyard.

That's it (the last time I made a fluxgram was a long time ago :study: ), if there's any nonsense tell, because I admit not being aware of all Shipyard's working gears. Whatever... You get the idea of a "Wizard" starting Shipyard.
;)
 
Last edited:
well, iam no programmer but i want to ask one question regarding panels.
Is there a way to do it the flighsimulatorway? Bitmaps and cfg files for standard gauges.

regards
jtiberius
 
The project is still being worked on, albeit slowly.

Around now i've been thinking about how to edit and define Virtual Cockpits.
The problem is - what to define?
You can pick surfaces for MFD's and HUD, get the camera settings, anf that is all.

I guess some kind of trigger system is in order, like you make an animation on the VC view, like anywhere else, you assign the clickability to the animation, and the event - animation or something - that the linked animated component will trigger.
That means two types of VC animations at least - flip-switch and translate-throttle ones.

Is that enough? What do you think it should look like?

Some standard gauges and instruments, both for VC and for panels are in order, right?
What should they be? Should it be a fixed set, or a plug-in system is in order to be devised?

VC design view, pretty blank, and the current color scheme:
os-081219-1.jpg


well, iam no programmer but i want to ask one question regarding panels.
Is there a way to do it the flighsimulatorway? Bitmaps and cfg files for standard gauges.
Hmm. You define panels with bitmaps, and the contents is having the same problem as VC's - lack of it, that is.
I expected the panel bitmaps to be just saved in textures folder to prevent messing with WinApi resources.
The instruments are probably to be configured from within the editor and coded in the resulting DLL.
Since you can reopen the released DLL itself with the editor and tweak the parameters, it should be as good as the cfg's, shouldn't it?

Artlav, would the Shipyard have costumizable exhaust?
Why not?
Bitmaps are for the user to draw, but the parameters are easily tweakable.

That could be used at the start of the Shipyard. I'll post a diagram with my idea later, now I need to log out.
{IMG}
The comments:
*Hypothesis for possible Orbiter development in the future.
**Adjusting the program options for the selected choice.
***If the Shipyard needs/makes use of Vinka's AddOns in anyway (I don't know:unknown:)
****This is only used if "***" is true; These instructions are default only, the possible result depends on how Artlav programs the Shipyard.
A start-up project wizard?
Like something for a total newbie to get a grip on the system, or a set of pre-made templates to start working from?
 
*rubs hands together*
If i had the money, I'd PAY To have this. This would be AMAZING
*fires up VB Express Edition*
Time to put my bits of knowledge to use...

I have some experience building GUI's (just designing the graphical part), so I'll build what I would want to see in a GUI like this:

When you fire it up, it will ask you if you want to continue a project, or start a new one. Lets say (for demonstration purposes) that the user picks to start a new project. He would be sent to this screen(I know it looks sloppy, I'm just putting the stuff on right now so you can get the general idea of what i'm getting at):

Properties.jpg


Here, you would define every parameter a ship has: Size, mass, etc, etc. Fairly Straight Forward. Next would be the actual design screen:

ShipEditor.jpg


The Ship Editor would be something VERY simple that a 10 year old could do. You are given some standard "frames", engines, wing designs, wheel designs, etc, etc, and you put them together. To reshape one, you click on a point, and drag it. It will conform to what you want. The Ship parameters are defined in here also. In the example, you have an "Air lock" Option. When this is selected, you would be able to draw a box defining the airlock. Click and drag to define. When its set, the check box next to it will check, showing you have defined it. "Touch down points" Would just be points; "Engine direction" would be arrows; "Camera(s)" would be arrows (you can define more then one camera view in parameters); "Docking ports" would be circles. I think you get my drift. Very Heavily Graphical.

Next is the Animation Screen:

Animation.jpg


Concept is fairly simple: Click either "Rotation" or "Translation". "Rotation" defines axis(s) to be rotated, and defines the "center" of which the part is to be rotates around. "Translation" defines the axis(s) of which the part is to be moved. Next, Select the "Start Position" button and select the part(s) you want to be animated. When it is in its starting position (which should be the same as when you modeled it, but you never know), click the "Running" button. Here, you move it to your finish position. NOTE: IT WOULD NOT FOLLOW YOUR MOVEMENTS. THIS IS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE COMPUTER TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. When you have it in its final position, click the "End Position" button. The check boxes become checked when the position is defined. After the "End Position" Button is clicked, the model returns to its original position. Next, define how long that particular animation would take. When that is defined, click the "Done with animation" button. When you click that, The computer analyzes the start position and the end position, whether it is "Rotation" or "Translation", figures in the time, and calculates the appropriate animation. You can click "replay" to see/fix it if necessary. It then stores the animation name in a list box that you can view. To edit an animation, just select one out of the box.

Next is the Effects Page:

Effects.jpg


This one is much simpler then the Animation page (took me about 20 minutes to come up with that bare minimum of information). You have some effects to browse through, and you can edit them/choose where they go on the model.
*I have no experience with effects, so this one is left open because i dont want to make myself look stupid*

Next would be Texturing:

Texture.jpg


*Again, i have no idea how UV mapping works, so this one is again, left open*

The Final page would be the overview page:

Overview.jpg


Here, it would show a small picture of your ship, fully textured, possibly spinning. It would also show some basic parameters such as Name, Size, Mass, UMMU Compatible, etc, etc. The Button on the bottom would create the .dll, a .cfg file, and all other files necessary. The "Try it out" Button would start orbiter with your ship in orbit around earth. Here you could try out all the settings. Also, since creating the .dll might take a while, the try it out thing could be a "try before you buy" kind of deal.

That would be my idea for a good GUI based ship creator. I know it looks kind of sloppy, but its just so you guys can get a basic idea of what is going through my head.

I'm gonna save this GUI on the off chance that someone likes it/can work with it. Im willing to give it out to pretty much anyone.

Cheers!

NOTE: This is not a working copy. Its just the GUI part, no code at all. Just to avoid confusion.
 
I think that as long as this is still being developed, a "spacecraft3 to .dll" function should be considered. It would save developers from having to re-type all the vessel parameters as defined in the .ini of a spacecraft3 vessel. Just a thought.

Is this program going to spit out a minimal implementation .cpp (shuttle PB style) or a .h along with a .cpp?
 
*rubs hands together*
If i had the money, I'd PAY To have this. This would be AMAZING
*fires up VB Express Edition*
Time to put my bits of knowledge to use...

I have some experience building GUI's (just designing the graphical part), so I'll build what I would want to see in a GUI like this:

When you fire it up, it will ask you if you want to continue a project, or start a new one. Lets say (for demonstration purposes) that the user picks to start a new project. He would be sent to this screen(I know it looks sloppy, I'm just putting the stuff on right now so you can get the general idea of what i'm getting at):

Properties.jpg


Here, you would define every parameter a ship has: Size, mass, etc, etc. Fairly Straight Forward. Next would be the actual design screen:

ShipEditor.jpg


The Ship Editor would be something VERY simple that a 10 year old could do. You are given some standard "frames", engines, wing designs, wheel designs, etc, etc, and you put them together. To reshape one, you click on a point, and drag it. It will conform to what you want. The Ship parameters are defined in here also. In the example, you have an "Air lock" Option. When this is selected, you would be able to draw a box defining the airlock. Click and drag to define. When its set, the check box next to it will check, showing you have defined it. "Touch down points" Would just be points; "Engine direction" would be arrows; "Camera(s)" would be arrows (you can define more then one camera view in parameters); "Docking ports" would be circles. I think you get my drift. Very Heavily Graphical.

Next is the Animation Screen:

Animation.jpg


Concept is fairly simple: Click either "Rotation" or "Translation". "Rotation" defines axis(s) to be rotated, and defines the "center" of which the part is to be rotates around. "Translation" defines the axis(s) of which the part is to be moved. Next, Select the "Start Position" button and select the part(s) you want to be animated. When it is in its starting position (which should be the same as when you modeled it, but you never know), click the "Running" button. Here, you move it to your finish position. NOTE: IT WOULD NOT FOLLOW YOUR MOVEMENTS. THIS IS JUST TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE COMPUTER TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. When you have it in its final position, click the "End Position" button. The check boxes become checked when the position is defined. After the "End Position" Button is clicked, the model returns to its original position. Next, define how long that particular animation would take. When that is defined, click the "Done with animation" button. When you click that, The computer analyzes the start position and the end position, whether it is "Rotation" or "Translation", figures in the time, and calculates the appropriate animation. You can click "replay" to see/fix it if necessary. It then stores the animation name in a list box that you can view. To edit an animation, just select one out of the box.

Next is the Effects Page:

Effects.jpg


This one is much simpler then the Animation page (took me about 20 minutes to come up with that bare minimum of information). You have some effects to browse through, and you can edit them/choose where they go on the model.
*I have no experience with effects, so this one is left open because i dont want to make myself look stupid*

Next would be Texturing:

Texture.jpg


*Again, i have no idea how UV mapping works, so this one is again, left open*

The Final page would be the overview page:

Overview.jpg


Here, it would show a small picture of your ship, fully textured, possibly spinning. It would also show some basic parameters such as Name, Size, Mass, UMMU Compatible, etc, etc. The Button on the bottom would create the .dll, a .cfg file, and all other files necessary. The "Try it out" Button would start orbiter with your ship in orbit around earth. Here you could try out all the settings. Also, since creating the .dll might take a while, the try it out thing could be a "try before you buy" kind of deal.

That would be my idea for a good GUI based ship creator. I know it looks kind of sloppy, but its just so you guys can get a basic idea of what is going through my head.

I'm gonna save this GUI on the off chance that someone likes it/can work with it. Im willing to give it out to pretty much anyone.

Cheers!

NOTE: This is not a working copy. Its just the GUI part, no code at all. Just to avoid confusion.
This is a great interface; I like it!!!:speakcool: But at the moment, I like Artlav's interface a little more. (Tip: Maybe make the preview screen bigger;))
 
I have some experience building GUI's (just designing the graphical part), so I'll build what I would want to see in a GUI like this:
...
That would be my idea for a good GUI based ship creator. I know it looks kind of sloppy, but its just so you guys can get a basic idea of what is going through my head.
Thank you, some ideas are worth considering, although animation and final pages are missing the point.

Here, it would show a small picture of your ship, fully textured, possibly spinning.
...
The "Try it out" Button would start orbiter with your ship in orbit around earth. Here you could try out all the settings. Also, since creating the .dll might take a while, the try it out thing could be a "try before you buy" kind of deal.
The shipyard runs on OGLAClient engine, so you have a spinning picture of your ship along with trying-out-the-settings in real-time as you are making it.
And DLL creating is a split-second process, regardless of the generated vessel's complexity.

I think that as long as this is still being developed, a "spacecraft3 to .dll" function should be considered. It would save developers from having to re-type all the vessel parameters as defined in the .ini of a spacecraft3 vessel.
Simply an import function?
Ability to import existing .cfg, spacecraft3.dll, multistage.dll, aircraft.dll, etc craft into the editor as a new project?

Anybody knows if Vinka sill works on his dll's?
Last update seems to be in late 2006.

Is this program going to spit out a minimal implementation .cpp (shuttle PB style) or a .h along with a .cpp?
Neither, it only gives out a complete DLL.
 
Aw man!!!! I'm itching to try this!!! With this, I can finally make one of my most advanced ship in orbiter: the Archangel from Gundam Seed (provided the fact that this program will let me enter my own codes like the codes for making the laser beams destructive, and so on...) So Artlav, any idea when the beta is coming out?
 
this looks so ausome!!

one question, do you realy want to give "DLL" addon making power to the underlings who dont know C++.

Just kidding, keep up the good work Artlav.

Matt:cheers:
 
So Artlav, any idea when the beta is coming out?
February 2009, give or take a couple of months, with prediction error of +-season or two.
 
Without counting with the "sloppiness", I like Kaikos GUI.

@Artlav: A set of pre-made templates to start working from. To write instructions that have no specific place on the mesh unlike docking ports or exhaust point, but act on the whole spaceship like if it's needed a pilot inside for the ship to work (like in DGIV).
As you may notice it is also to keep the GUI clean and adapted to the user's level/project kind; Like when appears the window asking the kind of craft since different technologies need different options (eg.: rockets don't need rotative feature for helicopters rotors; helicopters' rotors are in constant animation unlike usual animations), or in the window asking user's level: depending in the choice the GUI will or not have advanced options. All this is sort of the "Properties" Tab Kaiko's GUI but much more filled in options and (in my imagination) with a stage by stage look like what happens with installation applications and other Windows Wizards.
 
Aw man!!!! I'm itching to try this!!! With this, I can finally make one of my most advanced ship in orbiter: the Archangel from Gundam Seed (provided the fact that this program will let me enter my own codes like the codes for making the laser beams destructive, and so on...) So Artlav, any idea when the beta is coming out?
You could as well make this project, if you want a challenge. Then Kadet will be very happy.:lol:
 
One more generated vessel test:
http://orbides.1gb.ru/orbf/osh_dg_tst-081222.zip
DeltaGlider meshes, should have gears and nose cone animations, main and retro thrusters definitions, bad hover and RCS thrusters, major VC positions and components - HUD, MFD's, beacons and strobes.
Workability reports are welcome.

Also, some soon-to-be-default interface guidelines to ask about:

The color scheme:
White on gray text, green components, free-flight windowing system.
The selected group blinks green-red.
os-081222-1.jpg


Animations are controlled by time-bars system, bars are draggable by their ends.
Animation time-bars are color-coded:
Red defines rotation, Yellow defines translation, Blue defines scaling.

The numerical values (like duration) are changeable by moving the slider below the value and a speed modifier key.
os-081222-2.jpg




Look-and-feel opinions are welcome.
As well as for gauges set, triggers system, panels definition, etc discussed above.

.

.
 
What kind of support is in this for models ? will you have a converter build in ? because I use Xsi mod tool It was not easy to convert my model to a .msh file
 
What kind of support is in this for models ? will you have a converter build in ? because I use Xsi mod tool It was not easy to convert my model to a .msh file
Hm. It only loads the msh files now, but that's a valid point.
Technically, there is no limit in the editor, and anything good enough for it could be re-saved as msh.
I can add some open formats converter to it, but the formats should be named by somebody else - i don't know what's popular among 3D artists these days.

Are there any general-use open-source 3D formats that will benefit from to-msh-conversion ability?
 
.obj and .3ds I think are the main ones all the 3d modelling Programs I have used can save to them
 
Back
Top