OHM Moonbase Alpha Expansion Pack 1

[Axel]

Argh i meant the RCS thrust of the CM too and DM has still 13MN thrust .
Because they are attached they rotate together to fast. What when you try to dock both vessel instead? This would transfer the reaction momentums correct! Now every vessel doesnt interact with the other. And docking would be no problem for the landing-bug, because the complet stack never lands.

But the CM needs an value update too! The mass is to less and the ISp to high, then 500 tonnes fuel, where do you hide it inside the module? For the CM make 25% RCS thrust and Isp 3800 plz.
Mass 30 tonnes and fuel mass 2 tonnes. Main thrust 200kN.

Dont forget the Metaprobe, it is to heavy nearly 5000 tonnes and has even a to high Isp.

 

[gattispilot]

I'll make the changes. What do you recommend for the mass,... for the DM.

I may try the docking point.

 

[Axel]

Thank you very mutch! The dry mass of the DM seems to be Ok with 400 tonnes, because its a really big part. Its about 4 x the space shuttle (which weights 100mT) in size. But the fact that the space shuttle is most an empty payload bay, we can counter that the DM is made from futuristic materials, like composits and is most an empty tank. Only the reactor has alot mass. So 400mT are well, dont make it lighter or heavier.

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks lets try these:
CM

SetSize (21);
	SetEmptyMass (30);
	SetCameraOffset (_V(.6,0,5.7));
	SetCameraDefaultDirection (_V(0,1,0));

	SetTouchdownPoints (_V(0,-1,-7), _V(-1.6,1,-7), _V(1.6,-1,-7));
	InitNavRadios (4);
	SetRotDrag (_V(0.2, 0.2, 0.05));
	SetCW (0.35, 0.35, 2, 6);
	SetCrossSections (_V(200,30,30));
	SetPMI (_V(57.90, 54.34, 17.13));
	EnableTransponder (true);

const double FUELMASS = 2000;
const double ISP = 3800;
const double MAXMAINTH = 200;
const double MAXRETROTH = 200;
const double MAXRCSTH = 41665;

On the docking just add in the cfg. These matches the attachment info

; === Configuration file for vessel class Adapter ===
ClassName = UPROBEFRONT
Module = UPROBEFRONT
BEGIN_DOCKLIST
14 0 -33 1 0 0 0 0 -1 588
0 0 -6.287 0 0 1 0 1 0 589
END_DOCKLIST


; === Configuration file for vessel class Adapter ===
ClassName = ULTRAPROBEREAR
Module = ULTRAPROBEREAR
BEGIN_DOCKLIST
0 0 58.73 0 0 -1 0 1 0 590
END_DOCKLIST

 

[BenSisko]

Possible glitch in the new CM dll. I'm unable to detatch from the DM. The RCS settings are better!

 

[gattispilot]

I saw that. If docking works. Do we want to remove the attachment part and change that the arms need to be open to undock

Here is the metaprobe info

const double FUELMASS = 500000;
const double ISP = 11e12;
const double MAXMAINTH = 13000000;
const double MAXRETROTH = 13000000;
const double MAXRCSTH = 166666;

SetSize (67);
	SetEmptyMass (4500000.0);
	SetCameraOffset (_V(2,3,11.9));//31
	InitNavRadios (4);
	SetRotDrag (_V(0.2, 0.2, 0.05));
	SetCW (0.35, 0.35, 2, 6);
	SetCrossSections (_V(250,600,38));
	SetPMI (_V(272, 285, 16));
	EnableTransponder (true);

 

[Axel]

@gattispilot
The CM weights only 30 kg ?!!! You forgot to set it to 30mT, means in orbiter mass= 30 000. And the main engine thrust is still 13 MN, plz set it to
200 000 (=200kN).

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks. Corrected CM info

const double FUELMASS = 2000;
const double ISP = 3800;
const double MAXMAINTH = 200000;
const double MAXRETROTH = 200000;
const double MAXRCSTH = 41665;

SetSize (21);
	SetEmptyMass (30000);
	...
	th_main = CreateThruster (_V(0,0,0), _V(0,0,1), MAXMAINTH, TANK, ISP);

Also fix the thrust on the DM ultraproberear. Although I changed in the H. I had the thrust manually written in rather than MAXMAINTH

 

[Axel]

Ok good job gattispilot! Your changings are working now! I inserted the new dockings too to the configs and its nice! The complet ship has a dV of 178 km/s now, thats 2 times of an ArrowFreighter and 4 times of an eagle shuttle, i think its a good value for the solar system. Its high but not unrealistic, it pays tribute to the kind of this ship, a long range explorer. BenSisko should take this changings to his package ! :thumbup:

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks. Does the Metaprobe and Hawk need changed also?

I will then remove the attachment also and allow the arms to move only if docked. Not sure how to tell it to dock/undock with out CTRL-D. That way you can only undock/dock if arms are open.

Should I use docking or attachment? I found that you need to undock and then apply thrust else you redock

 

[BenSisko]

With the new dll's I'm having problems with the docking system. The ability to use Dock MFD is great but the only way I get a clean undock is to use the CM's main engines to apply a constant ~25.0k then undock. It doesn't seem smooth or realistic.

---------- Post added 02-04-11 at 08:36 AM ---------- Previous post was 02-03-11 at 10:38 PM ----------

Axel,
What do you think about keeping the refined thrust settings for the Ultra probe but using the attachment system rather than docking for the CM and DM? The docking system has the advantage of using Dock MFD but has the above mentioned problem with undocking. The attachment system is smoother but requires an external view and/or Camera MFD for guidance. Your thoughts...

Thanks,
Ben

 

[Axel]

@gattispilot
Yes the Magaprobe needs an update too, but i have still to do calculations about a realistic mass,tank capacity and propulsion-system/thrust.
The Hawk i must check, whats that ???

@BenSisko
What for a problem is there with undocking? The CM does not fly away from the DM after undocking? Sorry i did not understand.
Attachment has a big bug, the complet mass of the daughter vessel will not be registered/added from the mothership, check it out with "BurnTime-Calc" or "Object-info" from the orbiter menu. The CM did rotate like hell with the attached 900 tonnes DM, thats very unrealistic.
Its because the stack misses 900 tonnes, when attached to the CM!!!
When you want to use attachment, then find a way that it adds masses correctly, there are many other addons, where it works. Thats an advantage of DLLs, in spacecraft3 its impossible to do that, but i can only write in spacecraft3. So I solved this problem by using "extra conection vessels" in velcro standard for my addons. Because velcro registers mass addings correctly, in both ways. But it makes all more complex. And you are right, its nice to dock ships manually by using docking MFD. We could use CM as an shuttle between stations and the DM or other ships, but how we could do that with attachment?

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks. The MArkIX hawk is a fighter vessel.

It is included in the Update

 

[BenSisko]

Axel,
Thanks. While the docking arrangement allows the correct reading of mass for the vessel the issue I have with docking is that in order to undock, you have to fire the CM's mains about 10%-15% (unrealistic) in order to prevent the DM from overtaking (and re-docking with) the CM. With attachment, just "J" detaches the CM and with a few bursts of translation thrust you're away.

 

[Axel]

Ah ok i understand! Then we eventually find a way to revers the undocking flight path. It sounds for me, that the doking port direction is wrong, i will test it!
Ok i got it!!! It was the work of 5 minutes. I reverses just some values from - to + and + to -.
use these values, then the cm flys away from dm after undocking!

for the DM:

; === Configuration file for vessel class Adapter ===
ClassName = ULTRAPROBEREAR
Module = ULTRAPROBEREAR
BEGIN_DOCKLIST
0 0 58.73 0 0 1 0 1 0 590
END_DOCKLIST

for the CM

; === Configuration file for vessel class Adapter ===
ClassName = UPROBEFRONT
Module = UPROBEFRONT
BEGIN_DOCKLIST
14 0 -33 1 0 0 0 0 -1 588
0 0 -6.287 0 0 -1 0 1 0 589
END_DOCKLIST

 

[BenSisko]

Most Excellent! I grant you the Montgomery Scott Award of Engineering :tiphat:

 

[gattispilot]

Thanks. But now I know how to if allow or not allow the arms to move if docked. But is there a way to not allow docking if arms are closed?

I will remove the attachment code and command.

 

[Axel]

@BenSisko
Thank you very mutch too, but its my job as technician .

@gattispilot

But is there a way to not allow docking if arms are closed?

Yes its possible! You have to put the docking port to the arms instead the CM-body. So the docking port will move together with the arms, when the arms are closed set it simply to a pos that doking is impossible and in the open position the docking port has to be at the old place of the CM, then docking is possible.

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:59 PM ----------

I looked now at the Hawk. The empty mass is to low and Isp and fuel mass are to high. But you guys must know what you want, a realistic addon or a futuristic? I find all vessels are a bit to futuristic. But its a fighter and to be faster and better than a eagle it must be futuristic too. When i give you realistic values of this vessel, an eagle would be like a porsche and the Hawk like a family van. I suggest you to reconfigure all vessels with realisitc values, like in space odysse 2001.
I dont know the movie "moonbase 1999" to know the exact tasks of the eagles, but i think they are shuttles, which flying between moonbases and LEO stations. They all have 45km/s dV, thats to mutch for this job. The empty mass is a little bit to high, fuel mass and thrust seems to be Ok. So let us find good values for it for its job, then we can reconfig the hawk and Megaprobe. The Ultraprobe is the only ship with semi-realistic values now.

 

[gattispilot]

Ok not sure how to move the docking point.

I know I can set the arms only to open/closed if docked. but if the arms are closed then no dock.

No sure on realistic or futuristic. I think futuristic though

Here is some info on Eagles
http://www.space1999.net/catacombs/main/cguide/umeagle.html

 

[BenSisko]

Axel,
The science behind Space: 1999 was quite weak. The drive concepts were more mystical than fact based. In that setting the Eagle was more like the minivan and the Hawk was the Porsche GT2 RS.