Project Jupiter Class Orion Nuclear Pulse Spacecraft - Under Development

[AndyMc]

Hi All, Its been a while since I posted anything. In fact I think it's my first for the new forum. Anyhow...

I was reading up on some of the previously classified documents regarding the Orion Project, and noted that there were plans to launch a smaller version on 3 x (100t) Saturn V (first stages) for LEO assembly. I thought the 14m diameter Jupiter V-X (not yet released) could launch a slightly larger version to LEO. The Modelling is almost done, but textures etc still to add.

I thought some here would like an early peek!

It has a number of changes to the 1963 version by General Dynamics.
A 3 stage shock absorber on the propulsion unit (in place of 2).

A strongback frame in place of the central spine. This clears the way for a payload bay to contain landers etc. Access for crew to the propulsion unit is via a telescopic central tunnel that stays retracted until needed.

The hab module is suspended within the strongback on dampers and shock absorbers for a softer ride.

More images here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/virtualspaceflight/

and http://www.aovi93.dsl.pipex.com/my_orbiter_addons.htm

All for now

AndyMc

 

[wehaveaproblem]

It's a beast for sure! It certainly gets through some resources to get to LEO, looks impressive. Nice work on the model so far, I shall keep an eye on this dev... it certainly looks like a rocket that could actully make the most of the huge pad on Ascension.

Would you mind posting a few links to info about what you are basing this on? I don't know anything about the vessel you are talking about, be interesting to learn. Cheers.

Good luck.

 

[AndyMc]

Here are a few links:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

More detail in PDFs at the bottom of the above page.


http://www.teamvisioninc.com/downloads/AIAA-2006-7517-146.pdf

2006 AIAA Paper by Teamvision inc (includes Pictures of Jupiter III)



http://www.orbitersim.com/forum/Default.aspx?g=posts&m=191549

Old Forum Thread

AndyMc

 

[wehaveaproblem]

cheers for those links, some really interesting stuff in them - thanks.

From what I can see, you have added a 2nd and 3rd tank/booster combo, beyond the two within the 'real' plan. Since one of those docs shows the Jupiter 3 lifting 200-500mt with only 2, why did you choose to add the extra 2? I'm sure I'm missing something, so I'm curious.

Cheers.

 

[AndyMc]

Yes you are missing something - See bottom page 41 of the PDF,

Quote -

"In fact extending this concept even further in to a four SSET Jupiter V configuration integrated around a new
14 Meter ICES core and main/2nd stage engines a LEO lift capacity of over 1,000 mT could be achieved."

I've a picture somewhere of a model the author constructed for an exhibition. I can't find it at the moment. It's out there on the web somewhere?

 

[wehaveaproblem]

1000mt?! bugger me, that's some serious weight. I look forward to seeing this behemoth.

 

[pattersoncr]

Wow, that thing is impressive but I question the practicality. 1000 tons is quite a lot of eggs to put in one basket (especially one that probabll has the potential to rival a small nuclear weapon if something went wrong).
It seems to me that the more SRBs you strap to the thing, the smaller the chance that they all function correctly. Wouldn't 1000ton payloads be better served by launching them in smaller chunks and doing the final assembly on orbit?

(I hate to be a wet blanket though.)

 

[tl8]

Wow, that thing is impressive but I question the practicality. 1000 tons is quite a lot of eggs to put in one basket (especially one that probabll has the potential to rival a small nuclear weapon if something went wrong).
It seems to me that the more SRBs you strap to the thing, the smaller the chance that they all function correctly. Wouldn't 1000ton payloads be better served by launching them in smaller chunks and doing the final assembly on orbit?

(I hate to be a wet blanket though.)

LEO assembly would be easier and cheaper, but it would make an exciting show esp. if it failed.

 

[Jarvitä]

Wow, that thing is impressive but I question the practicality. 1000 tons is quite a lot of eggs to put in one basket (especially one that probabll has the potential to rival a small nuclear weapon if something went wrong).
It seems to me that the more SRBs you strap to the thing, the smaller the chance that they all function correctly. Wouldn't 1000ton payloads be better served by launching them in smaller chunks and doing the final assembly on orbit?

(I hate to be a wet blanket though.)

One huge launch can still have a much higher probability of success than the same payload distributed over several launches once you count in all the extra mass and infrastructure and technology for LEO rendezvous that can fail.

 

[pattersoncr]

One huge launch can still have a much higher probability of success than the same payload distributed over several launches once you count in all the extra mass and infrastructure and technology for LEO rendezvous that can fail.

True but the consequences of any one failure are much smaller.

 

[Andy44]

One huge launch saves mass and keeps things simpler and cheaper. When you have to assemble thngs in orbit those large structures have to be built in sections with joints and fittings that adds mass. You need a way to maneuver all that stuff to assemble it, and a construction crew to do the work, who have to be lifted and landed and have a place to sleep in the meantime (is. a station of some sort). You need multiple launchers and launch dates, and if one launch gets postponed due to weather the whole project is affected.

A 1000 mT launcher is essentially the Nova-class rocket everyone has wanted to build from von Braun onward. Getting lots of stuff to LEO in a short period of time is the key to large scale exploration. And modern rockets are increasingly reliable, including shuttle SRBs and SSMEs.

Sure there's risk, but dare one ignore the glory of such a monstrous earth-quaking rocket?

 

[jedidia]

Sure there's risk, but dare one ignore the glory of such a monstrous earth-quaking rocket?

Dare one ignore the rage of environmentalists when they hear such things like "monstrous earth-quaking rockets", "nuclear" and "bombs"?? :rofl:

Anyways, addon looks great so far. I think there is an Orion around somewhere for orbiter, but if I remember corectly it didn't have such a monumental launcher. Pushing that thing up into Orbit sure looks like fun!

 

[Andy44]

Sputnik's Orion, 10m and 20m diameter models of the old plans:

[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=838"]Orion 1.2[/ame]

They don't have a dedicated launcher, but the 10m can be launched on the Nova SSTO pretty easily. See my Mars mission here:

http://tekdino.proboards98.com/index.cgi?board=flightarchive&action=display&thread=43

As for the 20m Orion, I have yet to find a launcher big enough to lift it into LEO without the Orion having to complete the ascent under its own power. It's just too heavy for any of the stock rockets we have, even the Novas.

 

[Hartmann]

Sputnik's Orion, 10m and 20m diameter models of the old plans:

http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=838

They don't have a dedicated launcher, but the 10m can be launched on the Nova SSTO pretty easily. See my Mars mission here:

http://tekdino.proboards98.com/index.cgi?board=flightarchive&action=display&thread=43

As for the 20m Orion, I have yet to find a launcher big enough to lift it into LEO without the Orion having to complete the ascent under its own power. It's just too heavy for any of the stock rockets we have, even the Novas.

yes it´s too heavy.

i tried with the nova but you have to use his own power to finish the orbital insertion. but at least the dangerous engine is fired out of the atmosphere.

 

[eveningsky339]

yes it´s too heavy.

i tried with the nova but you have to use his own power to finish the orbital insertion. but at least the dangerous engine is fired out of the atmosphere.

Have you tried using Velcro Rockets to attach SRBs to the Nova? This should help a lot.

 

[Jarvitä]

True but the consequences of any one failure are much smaller.

You mean besides the whole mission being abandoned in either case?

 

[wehaveaproblem]

I meant to ask, is all the Jupiter modeling yours too? (nice btw) Do you plan to release that on it's own? It's one hell of a lifter! My mind boggles at what I could have the freedom to create with a 1000mt module...

 

[AndyMc]

I meant to ask, is all the Jupiter modeling yours too? (nice btw) Do you plan to release that on it's own? It's one hell of a lifter! My mind boggles at what I could have the freedom to create with a 1000mt module...

All mine except for the Shuttle Tank, which I adapted from an earlier version by 'DaveS' AKA 'Orbiterfan'. I used this in an earlier launcher - the Jupiter III-X which is still avalable on Orbithangar.

I think 1000t is doubtful with what I estimate masses to be - pure guesswork really. I can get just about 750t to LEO. I figure on making the Orion spacecraft around 400t-450t so we can place it a nice high Orbit.

Liquid fuelled boosters would probably fulfill the promise of 1000t, or drop tanks supplying a dense fuel like kerosene (and maybe extra LOX) to an adapted RS-68 engine that used TAN nozzles (thrust Augmentation). In fact the Core main engines are spec'd at 1.5 X RS-68 thrust (a physically larger version of the engine). Using TAN they could be based on the regular RS-68s size, and mounted under a adapted Shuttle Tank, with three engines on each core, like the proposed Jupiter 232 in the Direct Launcher proposal. The centre core would have 5 or 6 RS-68's (Pure LH2/LOX) lit up on the pad. I may make a core capable of handling a 20m diameter Orion which could also be backward compatiable with the Jupiter V-X. This possibly may be my next project.

Seperate releases is probably how I'll do it, with the Launcher including some scenarios for the Orion. The others will have just a dummy payload, that can be edited by the user.

No promise of a release date yet, but maybe mid to late December.

All for now...

 

[wehaveaproblem]

cool, cheers for the info.

I saw The J-III on orbithangar, so was keen to see the larger varient. Looking forward to it.

 

[Andy44]

Cool beans, Andy. Your Jupiter III is still one of my favorite launchers. BTW, Enjo's Launch MFD does a great job of guiding you through an efficient manual launch, which makes it more fun. After all, this is Orbiter, autopilots are for wimps!