Mister Mxyzptlk
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Care to show me one documented instance of undeniable deity? Besides when someone is ignorant and has their mind made up no amount of proof will sway them.
Is Religion A Force For Good In The World?
- Thread starter dgatsoulis
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Hmuda
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Happens to me when I get into the heat of things.
I would like to clarify that yes, any kind of unjustified, blind devotion to anything is harmful, be it religion, homeopathy, astrology, sport, TV shows, the girl next door, etc.
As for "always finding excuses to blow each other up"...well there are a few indications that it might not be completely true. There are studies that show a corelation (and not causation!) between a country's non-religiosity and the number of violent crimes commited.
Again, it might just be coindicent, but the countries that tend to be more atheistic have lower percentage of prison population , fewer violent crimes, and just better overall social health.
Likely because such countries are more developed, and that is what is causing crime reduction. Such a society may be more exposed to a sort of scientific opinion, which could lead to a larger prevalence of atheism. Or it could just be that social and historical factors that dictate the country has a large irreligious population, or even that it's just secular, which developed countries pretty much tend to be.
Secular does not necessarily mean atheistic or irreligious- religious people and even religious institutions can be secular too and it's generally best if they are.
Except: People are not stars, planets, or galaxies.
You can have a very vague definition of "good and evil", but it will of course be partially subjective at the very least, and how subjective it really is is up for debate.
Perhaps a better term would be "good" or "bad". Those can be clearly defined although they are pretty much always situation specific. If an explosive bolt on a booster fails, that is most definitely bad. And if tens of thousands of people are killed in a genocide, that is even worse.
Care to show one documented instance of evidence against the existence of any deity?
It is unscientific. Neither "side" can use science against the other. The only true 'scientific' opinion one could have is that of agnosticsm; "it is untrue and thus myth" is about the same as "god most definitely exists and looks like a pufferfish on rollerskates".
Secular does not necessarily mean atheistic or irreligious- religious people and even religious institutions can be secular too and it's generally best if they are.
Except: People are not stars, planets, or galaxies.
You can have a very vague definition of "good and evil", but it will of course be partially subjective at the very least, and how subjective it really is is up for debate.
Perhaps a better term would be "good" or "bad". Those can be clearly defined although they are pretty much always situation specific. If an explosive bolt on a booster fails, that is most definitely bad. And if tens of thousands of people are killed in a genocide, that is even worse.
Care to show one documented instance of evidence against the existence of any deity?
It is unscientific. Neither "side" can use science against the other. The only true 'scientific' opinion one could have is that of agnosticsm; "it is untrue and thus myth" is about the same as "god most definitely exists and looks like a pufferfish on rollerskates".
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Kveldulf
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See, this is what we call shifting the burden of proof. The topic at hand is if religion is a force for good, not the validity of religion. You made the claim that religion is false, you have to back it up.
dgatsoulis
ele2png user
Religion is an ever receiding pocket of ignorance...
Belisarius
Obsessed with reality. Why?
I little exchange I just had on a YouTube video, entitled "250,000 Dead Today - Nuclear Meltdown Japan Tsunami Earthquake, Volcano Eruptions, Dead Fish":
The implication in the title is that there are 250,000 victims in Japan though in the video info it's given as a world average death rate per day. My comment:
@belisariusorb (from the uploader "operationreapsouls")
Maybe I was a bit strong to call him a liar, but the implication of the video is clearly that God took 250,000 victims in Japan because they're sinners.
The emphasis on hell is something I lived with all my early life in a very traditional society. It's the dark negative side of all the churches I've ever known. It has created terrible fears and psychosis in certain members of my family.
Sorry if any of that is offensive. Not my intention at all.
The implication in the title is that there are 250,000 victims in Japan though in the video info it's given as a world average death rate per day. My comment:
@belisariusorb (from the uploader "operationreapsouls")
Maybe I was a bit strong to call him a liar, but the implication of the video is clearly that God took 250,000 victims in Japan because they're sinners.
The emphasis on hell is something I lived with all my early life in a very traditional society. It's the dark negative side of all the churches I've ever known. It has created terrible fears and psychosis in certain members of my family.
Sorry if any of that is offensive. Not my intention at all.
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Ghostrider
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Go and tell that to the parents of a kid who's been abducted and killed. People who spout nonsense like that either haven't thought it through or, if they really believe that, should be locked in a tight room surrounded by armed men.
N_Molson
Addon Developer
I fail to see what is intrinsically ignorant about religion... I am pretty sure, that there are a good number of ignorant atheists out there...
Belisarius- sounds like a Youtube-nut. Unfortunately they are out there, and best left alone lest their nonsense propagate.
Yet we are not stars. It is like comparing a space shuttle to a pile of bauxite, iron ore, and crude oil- inaccurate, because the thing in question is very different from the materials it is constructed of, alone.
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River Crab
SpaceX Cheer Captain
Anything can be used to channel hate. But if you have good intentions, religion is never bad. In this case, dangerous cults and overzealous idolatry are bad.
Now, is religion something that hateful people can look at, that will allow them to do hateful acts without persecution, if only if it were "in the name of god"?
Personally, I think that if any church's ideals encourage people using the church in this way, then it's a cult. And if people become corrupt in the church, that's not a problem with the church, it's a problem with the people.
Now, is religion something that hateful people can look at, that will allow them to do hateful acts without persecution, if only if it were "in the name of god"?
Personally, I think that if any church's ideals encourage people using the church in this way, then it's a cult. And if people become corrupt in the church, that's not a problem with the church, it's a problem with the people.
Jarvitä
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Do you accept obviously non-scientific claims as the objective truth? Are your religious beliefs exempt from the scientific method altogether?
If so, you have a problem. If you're letting this state of mind influence your everyday life, you present a danger to yourself and those around you.
Mister Mxyzptlk
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I don't have to prove anything. In fact I get a certain satisfaction from knowing the truth and observing the countless multitudes of ignorant primatives that are still steeped in superstition and fear. It gives me a position of advantage in life that has served me well because I don't fool myself or live in denial. It also gives me the clarity of vision to know when I am arguing or discussing positions with people who are clueless, and thus I can terminate the discussion with impunity. In fact, I am through with this one.
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tl8
Addon Developer
No and Yes. I am smart enough to know that religion (Theology in particular) is more history and psychology than actual science.
I also do not mix my personal life with my professional life. It is a lot easier then you think
I also do not mix my personal life with my professional life. It is a lot easier then you think
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iamwearingpants
Just an Earth-bound misfit, I
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Regarding what Belisarius posted, I have no problem with regular people who practice a religion, but it's the people who are disrespectful about it I don't like.
I have a friend who is Buddhist (Lets call him Joe) , but my other friend took over in an online chat and tried to convince him wildly and disrespectfully to convert, saying that he'll die a painful death forever if he didn't. He also insulted him multiple times, and I had to move him off the chair infront of the computer and apologize to Joe for what my other friend had done.
It was just downright rude for him to do that to Joe, He lost a big heaping chunk of respect from us after that. To be honest, I was just disgusted after it.
People who are in your face about their religion just make me angry.
I have a friend who is Buddhist (Lets call him Joe) , but my other friend took over in an online chat and tried to convince him wildly and disrespectfully to convert, saying that he'll die a painful death forever if he didn't. He also insulted him multiple times, and I had to move him off the chair infront of the computer and apologize to Joe for what my other friend had done.
It was just downright rude for him to do that to Joe, He lost a big heaping chunk of respect from us after that. To be honest, I was just disgusted after it.
People who are in your face about their religion just make me angry.
Ghostrider
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It seems that some here believe there can only be two kinds of people: the complete nonbeliever and the complete religious fanatic. Most people live in between and understand that faith (or religion, those are two different animals) should stay in the realm of personal morality and rational thought lives in a different neighbourhood. Balanced people know how to make good use of both. Would you say Buzz Aldrin is a bad person for taking Communion on the Moon? I think he's a good example of balancing the two sides. He's not alone.
-- following post reperesents my own opinion --
I was raised in catholic family and really tried to belive. I'm tollerant guy and relligion isn't the topic I'm very interested in as long as it stays away from me. I think everyone has right to belive in everything as long as he don't hurt other people. In the years I have formulated my opinions about religion and they are the same as opinions of this man:
I was raised in catholic family and really tried to belive. I'm tollerant guy and relligion isn't the topic I'm very interested in as long as it stays away from me. I think everyone has right to belive in everything as long as he don't hurt other people. In the years I have formulated my opinions about religion and they are the same as opinions of this man:
IgnoreThisBarrel
Local Pastafarian Missionary
Religion could be inspire or help people do good deeds, but a very large portion of religion is anti-scientific, proselytizing using methods such as fear (not to say it couldn't also be done out of love, however), reliant on faith (blind or otherwise), and has its own political and moral motives.
jinglesassy
New member
I am an atheist raised in a Christian home. Not hugely Christian super advocate go knocking door to door yelling CONVERT NOW OR ELSE! My family basically outcasted me completely due to me being an atheist though. I hate people who thinks that no matter what they are always right no matter what (Seriously dropping a nuclear bomb on the fukushima plant?) and just doing the same as my family did. I want everyone to be free to make there own choice without any consequences. As long as they dont go around trying to convert anyone they see.
tl8
Addon Developer
Do you have prove of this?
Some religions do seem to have mind control, but personally I have never been forced to believe anything.
And how does it go against common sense. Most of our laws are based along the ten commandments, and they are a lot older than the concept of laws that we have today. Perhaps you mean it goes against scientific theory.
I don't think they can be compared. One is based on testing and checking while the other is based on a book and people from a long time ago. I don't know about you, but I have found science to be more truthful than the bible.
I would of course like to know why you think religion (in general) is evil. Most religious people I know are considerate and kind...
