Poll Is it happening?-GlobalWarming

[Urwumpe]

A number, based on a man-made mathematical construct.

Don't make your life depend on numbers too much

Yes, I completely agree with you and support your belief. As money is also a man-made mathematical construct, you should also make your life not depend on that too much. What about freeing yourself from it and send it to the Orbiter-Forum?

See it like that: Tempo limits are also only man-made mathematical constructs.

 

[simonpro]

Don't be to hasty there, are you absolutely sure that everyone thinks so?



APC; United Nations

What does that have to do with the United Nations? As far as I can see they're attempting to make out in the headline that it's somehow related to UN policy, even though they're just going on a big long rant (and providing no evidence to back up their claims).


-----Post Added-----

*sigh*

So ... if so many people are so worked up that man has that much control over the temperature of the Earth and is causing "Global Warming" due to CO2 emissions (completely discounting atmospheric water vapor, cosmic radiation linked to cloud formation, THE SUN (scientists have said that Mars has been experiencing warming ... oh, those evil SUVs!)) ... and, considering it has been both much warmer and much colder in the history of the Earth ...

... could someone please tell me exactly what the perfect global temperature is supposed to be?

You say that scientists think Mars is also warming. Yet you fail to provide evidence. Do you have any? The only warming I've heard about on Mars is over the last few millennia (inferred from geology-or whatever it's called on Mars). In recent times we have no idea if Mars is cooling or warming. Some parts have rising average temperatures and other parts have falling average temperatures.

Also, there's no such thing as a perfect global temperature. The Earth depends on too many variables for something like that. The perfect temperature for humans is somewhere around what it's at now. We know there's been problems in the past when it's been colder and we know that if it increases we'll also have problems (well, holland will anyway).

 

[tblaxland]

...geology-or whatever it's called on Mars...

Areology*

*Etymology: Areo- from Ares (Greek) "god of war", from Mars (Roman) "god of war" + -logy, from -logia (Latin) "study of", from logos (Greek) "speech, word, discourse".

 

[agentgonzo]

If global warming melts the arctic ice cap (NOT antarctic) we are NOT all doomed. The ice displaces water, and if it melts, there will actually be no net increase in sea levels.

However, the temperature all of the water on the earth will have increased and thus all the oceans will expand a bit. It may be a fraction of a degree, but there's a hell of a lot of water to expand and this will represent a rise in sea levels.

 

[ar81]

Do you think Martin Schweiger exists?
How do we know that "he" is not indeed "them", a team of people that try to make us think of space, so we do not think about Global Warming??:lol:

 

[tblaxland]

Do you think Martin Schweiger exists?
How do we know that "he" is not indeed "them"

Well, I noticed his picture and article were pulled from Wikipedia by a user called "Deltaforce5000"...

 

[ar81]

Source http://www.nacion.com/ln_ee/2008/octubre/02/aldea1721915.html
Interview with Nicolas Brown, BBC producer of documentary "Are we changing planet Earth" with David Attenborough as presenter.

¿Era usted escéptico ante el tema antes de esto?
(Ríe) Antes del 2006 yo creía que la atmósfera del mundo era demasiado grande y los humanos demasiado pequeños como para que pudiéramos influir en algo. Que los cambios eran un proceso natural. Luego de estas producciones admito que soy completamente lo opuesto. Ahora soy un fiel activista contra el calentamiento global. Sé que es algo real porque lo he visto perjudicar a personas, animales y plantas en muchos países desde Tasmania, Australia, China, Alaska, Amazonas, Rusia y Europa.
“No me crean a mí. Hay miles de científicos que trabajan en el mundo sobre este tema y que tienen evidencias. La gente solo tiene que levantar la cabeza y ver que el cambio climático es un problema que nos afecta a todos. En todo el mundo hay gente haciendo cosas. Solo hay gobiernos, como el de Estados Unidos, que dificultan a las personas compartir esa información”.
Pero, hay científicos que defienden que es un ciclo natural...
Es verdad, pero usando la metáfora del futbol diría que en el equipo de los que están alarmados por el cambio climático están todos los Maradona; en el de los escépticos hay muy respetables, pero son mucho menos.
“El informe del Panel Intergubernamental sobre Cambio Climático (IPCC) es muy claro en los daños y eso que todo el mundo coincide en que son muy conservadores. La realidad es mucho peor de lo que advierten”.

Translation:

Were you a skeptic before this documentary?
(Grin) Before 2006 I believed that atmosphere was too big and and humans too small to exert some influence, changes were a natural process. After these productions I admit I am the exact opposite. Now I am an activist against Global Warming. I know it is real because I have seen the harm on people, plants and animals in many countries including Tasmania, Australia, China, Alaska, Amazon, Russia, Europe.

"Do not believe me. Thousands of scientists in the world are working on this and have evidences. People just need to raise their heads and see that it is a problem that is affecting everyone. Around the world there are people doing things about it. There are governments like US, that make things difficult to share this information with people"

But, there are scientists who say that it is a natural cycle...

It is true, but using the metaphore of soccer I'd say that those who are alarmed with climate change are the Maradonnas; and there are some skeptics but they are the very few.

"The report of Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) is very clear, regarding damage and everyone share the opinion that they are very conservative. Reality is worst than that."

 

[Urwumpe]

It is true, but using the metaphore of soccer I'd say that those who are alarmed with climate change are the Maradonnas; and there are some skeptics but they are the very few.

You mean - they have the hand of God in play? Gain mass faster as a feeding black hole in a planetary nebula, while consuming cocaine? Concentrated the power of 10,000 Argentinian football fans in one seat during the 2006 world cup?

Now... that metaphor must be something special.

 

[pete.dakota]

So what? It can either increase or decrease, like the local daily temperature change, but just much slower. It doesn't really matter.

If the mean temperature change around the globe is 100% natural, and would be occurring whether or not humans were industrious or not, then, yeah, it's not a problem. The issue exists because there is strong evidence which suggests the anomaly increase is being accelerated by man-made CO2 emissions.

Making likeness to the daily temperature change is redundant. The temperature changes daily, for the most part, as the Sun progresses across the sky and more or less heat is transferred to the atmosphere. This has nothing to do with the average Earth temperature over several decades.

It's risky for mankind to assume we're not to blame. The Earth is huge, yes; and the atmosphere does warm and cool itself. But it's ignorant - considering, scientifically, what we have been able to achieve so far - that man absolutely can't make a difference.

Trying to cut CO2 emissions isn't an attempt to 'stop' global warming. No one claims that. More a means of curtailing it's, currently exponential, increase.

 

[Omhra]

all scientific "understanding" aside... it comes down to attitudes.
Global warming "evidents" think we should move ahead with caution and care, where as the Global warming "nay sayers" think we should cut it all down or drill it out and burn it ...
It is clear who the renegades are.

 

[ar81]

Global warming or not, we need to take care of our planet cant just polute it stop the factorys giving out of that stuff.

The planet can live without us.
A raise of 2 degrees could destroy world agriculture forever.
That's not a big problem, unless you need food.

It is already destroying wood industry in Canada, for even if they plant more trees, global warming is killing them.

With complete sea level raise, Miami would be 50 miles from the coast.
It is not a big problem, except if you live in Miami.

India and China are creating a toxic cloud of pollution that is seen from space, BBC reported a few days ago, and it will reach California coast very soon. Not a problem if you do not care about toxicity and a hazy day.

 

[Urwumpe]

Hey, full sea level rise also has advantages: No more dutch caravans in front of my car on the highway.

And my home would be at the coast, with better temperatures...

 

[Redburne]

Hey, full sea level rise also has advantages: No more dutch caravans in front of my car on the highway.

And my home would be at the coast, with better temperatures...

... and miles and miles of dutch caravan settlements.

 

[Moonwalker]

If the mean temperature change around the globe is 100% natural, and would be occurring whether or not humans were industrious or not, then, yeah, it's not a problem.

The Earth actually has no mean temperature. It's a man-made average value, an "index" of different measurements.

The Earth is not in a thermodynamic balance. Also, to understand the climate at least a little bit, we need way more than just a single average value.

The issue exists because there is strong evidence which suggests the anomaly increase is being accelerated by man-made CO2 emissions.

Well, there is no strong evidence really, but a lot of guesswork.

 

[cjp]

Hey, full sea level rise also has advantages: No more dutch caravans in front of my car on the highway.

On the contrary: We will invade Germany to claim some Lebensraum.

(OK, that was about the limit of being funny. We're still talking about a hypothetical situation right? At least, something in the far future...)

And about an acceptable temperature: I'd say everything in the last 5000 years is more or less acceptable. But CO2 levels have never been as high as now since the time of the dinosaurs...

 

[Moonwalker]

CO2 levels have never been as high as now since the time of the dinosaurs...

Where did you get that information from?

 

[cjp]

Where did you get that information from?

I got it from an article in a high-quality dutch newspaper, several months ago. I looked it up on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_Earth's_atmosphere#Historical_variation

Present carbon dioxide levels are likely higher now than at any time during the past 20 myr[16] and certainly higher than in the last 800,000. It must be noted that although CO2 concentrations have been significantly higher in the distant past than they are today, the energy output of the sun has also steadily increased over the same period.

Wikipedia links to this IPCC page.

 

[Moonwalker]

I got it from an article in a high-quality dutch newspaper, several months ago. I looked it up on Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_the_Earth's_atmosphere#Historical_variation
Wikipedia links to this IPCC page.

Well, the dinosaur existed until about 65 million years ago

But anyway, the data we get from relatively young local core records is not rather reliable when talking about a global climate millions of years ago.

 

[MajorTom]

I like to think of Global Warming as yet another test for humanity. Are we smart enough as a species to do something about it in time, if there is something we can indeed, do? While trying to live our lives here, etc.?

Fortunately enough people these days are concerned about the possibilities. Better than total ignorance.

 

[Biscuit]

...

No one knows the "perfect temperature" but we have a good idea of the temperatures that trigger extinctions in massive scale.
...

Anti-technology solutions are what are most commonly given for reducing carbon emissions ... they just haven't reached this forum yet ... also odd how man-made carbon gets the blame when man-made carbon emissions are but a fraction of the total ... don't volcanoes emit much more carbon than man?

Nobody knows what the 'perfect' temp is ... but everyone knows that the current temp is 'wrong' ... ooooooookay ...

No one has said that, ... and if you could keep it out of the political it would be nice too...
...

You're right ... I won't post any more questions or comments on this subject ... I should have known better than to step into a religious discussion.