Idea Interface with Flight Sims?

JonnyBGoode

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Would/could it be possible in the future to interface Orbiter with a flight sim like GE Flight Sim or FlightGear, to have even better low-level flight and scenery?

(Sorry if the question's been asked before; I searched and came up zip.)
 
You can already make a wrapper DLL to the aircraft models of flight gear. It isn't easy, when I experimented with it (tried JSBSim), I noticed quite a few problems. But these could be solved, with more time.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JSBSim"]JSBSim - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

But it makes no sense to have two different simulation engines exist in parallel.
 
I wasn't worried about multiple engines running so much as I was thinking of using their scenery and surface modeling.
 
I wasn't worried about multiple engines running so much as I was thinking of using their scenery and surface modeling.

I doubt that this is possible.
 
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Simple approach (for Earth of course):
Save you flight from Orbiter when you get below 40 km or something, then load into a flight sim. Use same spacecraft on both. The only thing needed is a spacecraft + save converter...
 
Simple approach (for Earth of course):
Save you flight from Orbiter when you get below 40 km or something, then load into a flight sim. Use same spacecraft on both. The only thing needed is a spacecraft + save converter...

Sounds awfully tricky without a state-vector conversion tool, but if you really wanted it...

What would be the appeal to that anyways? I always figured Orbiters atmospheric flight was decent at least. Why go to all of that trouble?
 
Sounds awfully tricky without a state-vector conversion tool, but if you really wanted it...

What would be the appeal to that anyways? I always figured Orbiters atmospheric flight was decent at least. Why go to all of that trouble?

Well, Orbiter really looks a bit boring near the surface, but that isn't really a Orbiter problem. Terrain will be added, but thats just a minor issue actually.

What really is missing is better surface bases. Only few really add scenery and most of those are just tiny islands, that have only ocean around them. For continental surface bases, you also need landmarks.

It would be nice, if we could define surface bases, that don't appear in the menus or in the API (unless requested) - so we can create landmarks that are distant from bases.
 
Well, Orbiter really looks a bit boring near the surface, but that isn't really a Orbiter problem. Terrain will be added, but thats just a minor issue actually.

What really is missing is better surface bases. Only few really add scenery and most of those are just tiny islands, that have only ocean around them. For continental surface bases, you also need landmarks.

It would be nice, if we could define surface bases, that don't appear in the menus or in the API (unless requested) - so we can create landmarks that are distant from bases.

Fair enough, but what difference would it make to be able to not access bases in the menu/API?
 
Fair enough, but what difference would it make to be able to not access bases in the menu/API?

What sense does it make to have a base listed in the selection menus, where you can't land? If it isn't navigable, it must not be listed ingame, but would only be of interest for special map displays.
 
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I kinda see what Urwumpe is saying. I'd like to be able to plug a set of co-ords into Surface MFD and fly straight there but that doesn't mean that those co-ords are a base.

These days, I can at least do that with [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=5831"]WaypointMFD beta 3[/ame]
 
Well, Orbiter really looks a bit boring near the surface, ...

... so we can create landmarks that are distant from bases.


You can do that by adding a global mesh... Tricky but doable.
For example, import the Phobos mesh into your 3D program of choice, model your base, export again.

The same can be done for Earth.

I agree that the current base system must go.
What we must be able to define are "landing places" of two types: pads and runways. And for those we need to be able to define the altitude.
The the terrain can be drawn procedurally or using meshes. If not terrain is used, set all altitudes to zero (legacy model).

All scenery is scenery, not instrument navigation, I agree with that.
 
You can do that by adding a global mesh... Tricky but doable.
For example, import the Phobos mesh into your 3D program of choice, model your base, export again.

The same can be done for Earth.

In theory yes - practically not. Phobos is a small potato of the size of Manhattan New York. Earth is HUGE.

A single global mesh would be badly inefficient for larger planets and not needed for the gas giants, which could need their own improvements, IMHO (More cloud layers, own scattering models and procedural volumetric clouds)

I agree that the current base system must go.

I agree. The current one is fairly user friendly, though.

Maybe a community should make a prototype application for a solar system editor first and use that together with Martin and the visualization crowd for getting a better successor, that is also still user-friendly, by the means of being released together with a suitable editor.

Would at least help describing, what we want.

I also want to be able to create buildings, that have a DLL, but are no vessels. A lot of the vessel API is simply wasted there, while other features are badly missing (especially regarding level of detail management)

What we must be able to define are "landing places" of two types: pads and runways. And for those we need to be able to define the altitude.
The the terrain can be drawn procedurally or using meshes. If not terrain is used, set all altitudes to zero (legacy model).

It would also make sense to define things like taxiways and aprons. Those could also make sense in the simulation eventually (ground friction, damage modelling).

All scenery is scenery, not instrument navigation, I agree with that.

Yes, both is related since navigation beacons are often also scenery objects, but it is not the same layer of information.

I think that, for flying, less is more. If you want to fly to a special landmark, you can still look into the map for the coordinates and set up waypoints.
 
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Would at least help describing, what we want.

I can agree with that :lol:

@4thRock: the enthusiasm is good, but try to bear in mind that we cant afford to turn the structure of Orbiter upside down every time it updates. Gradual progress will be better than blowing it all up, and killing backwards compatibility in the process.

I also want to be able to create buildings, that have a DLL, but are no vessels. A lot of the vessel API is simply wasted there, while other features are badly missing (especially regarding level of detail management)

Why would this be so useful as a feature? The only thing really needed to do this right now is to create a vessel, and code it so that it is forcibly restrained to a particular ground position each frame.
 
Why would this be so useful as a feature? The only thing really needed to do this right now is to create a vessel, and code it so that it is forcibly restrained to a particular ground position each frame.

Because it is simpler to have a building, that does not know at all how to move, than to teach a vessel to stand still and be serious.
 
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