News (Inspiration Mars) Dennis Tito Wants to Send Human Mission to Mars in 2018

[jedidia]

Come on though, I think everyone here who has ever played with InterplanetaryMFD or TransX MFD to Mars would volunteer in a heartbeat.

one and a half years locked in a sardine can with minimal leg space, one other person and nothing to do? No, really, I wouldn't.

 

[N_Molson]

The Dragon or any Apollo-inspired capsule will be, even loaded with 501 days of consumables (they would require an urine-recycling device, like aboard the ISS, no idea how big and how heavy it is), a bit more spacious than Gemini, that was really a flying sportcar. But yeah, not a lot of room anyway, considering that some extra items like a treadmill are required for such a long duration.

As far as I understood, this is a simple manned Mars pass with free return, an orbital insertion would require a significantly heavy hypergolic stage for MOI and TEI.

Also, I wonder what stage they would use to send the capsule to Mars ? A Centaur could probably send the capsule alone, without extra hypergolic tug.

A lot can happen in 501 days and such a minimalistic mission profile is IMHO dangerous, especially regarding the limited potential benefits.

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, they could use a Bigelow style habitat for having more volume. 2 astronauts would consume 2000 liters of water in 500 days. Urine recycling would not be automatically needed... you could also use the water extracted from the cabin atmosphere and reduce the amount of water that needs to be transported. This water would be easier to treat than Urine.

Food would be the major problem. You can't recycle food, and growing food during travel would be practically impossible. What you could do is growing some small amounts of herbs and spices in the habitat for psychological effects. 500 days would be long, but if you could spend a part of it caring for some plants, it would at least be less boring.

Still, you would need a large mass of MREs to survive for 500 days. You would again need about 2 kg of food per astronaut and per day. Together 2 tons again... means 4 tons for food and water. That is not THAT much, but a enough to require some engineering... a simple upper stage would likely not be enough.

 

[statickid]

I feel like if you talk to them over the radio a lot and send videos it wouldn't be too bad when coupled with the inspiration of being the first humans to visit another planet. Plus if you send programmers and have them write code all the way there and back they might not even notice they left before they got back

---------- Post added at 01:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 AM ----------

Have them collaborate to help develop Orbiter 2020

 

[jedidia]

when coupled with the inspiration of being the first humans to visit another planet.

Such inspirations do not usually last for very long...

 

[N_Molson]

a simple upper stage would likely not be enough.

Yes, I don't have the exact calculations in mind, but a Centaur stage is OK for TMI for 8-9 tons, assuming it reaches orbit full and is fired as quickly as possible to avoid too much boiloff. The Dragon capsule itself is 4,500 kgs alone if I'm correct. So with 4 tons of consumables, we are right in the 8-9 tons range. But there are the astronauts themselves and some extra equipement that would add mass I think.

Also, 2018 is tomorrow in terms of spacecraft engineering and R&D. So it means "off-the-shelf" technology and existing rocket stages (it is already optimistic to consider that the Falcon Heavy is nothing more than 3x Falcon 9 rockets bound together, the thing never flown as in early 2013). R&D of the capsule (including manned flight - still not done in 2013 - and deep-space modifications) is probably doable in 5 years, if there are no setbacks, and if there is a multi-billionnaire steadily flowing money from behind.

I'm not too concerned about the psychological aspects - some cosmonauts had epic duration experience on Mir with little support during the darkest days of the station. Also, the NASA/Roscosmos technique to counter boredom is usually very efficient : make plannings for the astronauts with a bit more work than they can really do each day, so they always feel in a hurry. The nature of the tasks is secondary, even entering useless listings in a computer, compiling any kind of data, anything as long as it is work they have to do. When you feel in a hurry, times flies by, we all know that.

 

[dougkeenan]

Biospherians involved. Are they on the candidate list for going?

 

[Kyle]

Couldn't you hypothetically do this? --

I. Launch a Falcon Heavy with a cargo variant of the Dragon (CRS) into orbit, leave the Falcon Heavy and Dragon complex attached for a few weeks. The cargo variant of the Dragon will be filled to the brim with cargo such as food, equipment, etc.

II. In January 2018, launch a Falcon 9 rocket with a Dragon attached, and a BEAM module (x2 CBM's instead of one), detach the Dragon once in orbit, turn around, dock to the BEAM and detach from the Falcon 9.

III. Inflate the BEAM module on-orbit, rendezvous with the Falcon Heavy/Dragon complex and dock.

IV. Launch the Falcon Heavy towards Venus for a flyby, then enter the complex for a free-return to Mars.

I just don't see them doing this with a single Dragon by itself. The moon, yes, I could see them doing. I wish companies wouldn't focus on grandiose adventures to Mars and have a company announce a flyby of the moon in 2018. Far more feasible and likely.

 

[Donamy]

Couldn't you hypothetically do this? --

I. Launch a Falcon Heavy with a cargo variant of the Dragon (CRS) into orbit, leave the Falcon Heavy and Dragon complex attached for a few weeks. The cargo variant of the Dragon will be filled to the brim with cargo such as food, equipment, etc.

II. In January 2018, launch a Falcon 9 rocket with a Dragon attached, and a BEAM module (x2 CBM's instead of one), detach the Dragon once in orbit, turn around, dock to the BEAM and detach from the Falcon 9.

III. Inflate the BEAM module on-orbit, rendezvous with the Falcon Heavy/Dragon complex and dock.

IV. Launch the Falcon Heavy towards Venus for a flyby, then enter the complex for a free-return to Mars.

I just don't see them doing this with a single Dragon by itself. The moon, yes, I could see them doing. I wish companies wouldn't focus on grandiose adventures to Mars and have a company announce a flyby of the moon in 2018. Far more feasible and likely.

Make it into a scenario.:thumbup:

 

[statickid]

Such inspirations do not usually last for very long...

I don't think this factor can be so quickly discarded. Although I admit it was VASTLY more luxurious than this proposed mission, people endured Mars 500 without even getting to go anywhere at all.

The tiny size might be all the difference between success and failure. After all Mars 500 would be more like a mansion compared to a prison cell. There are all sorts of people, though. If you find the right person for the job, it might be just fine.

As any sci-fi enthusiast may predict, however, people that seem right for the job may not be immune to cracking under the pressures and monotony of the mission.

I think the idea of "space madness" (or whatever) is older than actual space flight, is well recognized, and its threat is acknowledged or maybe even feared.

 

[Alfastar]

Well, first we got the unrealistic big-brother Mars project. Now we got a space-tourist person who clams he can do a one-way manned Mars mission. Well, this idea is very unrealistic because some points:

1. How there can survive 500 days in space? With only 1 or 2 dragons? Well, that can't, because its too small for oxygen for 500 days, or you will send only 1 person to it, but then its even more unrealistic and even dumb.

2. A one-way trip to Mars cost astronomic much money, and even orbiting it or a fly-by cost extreme much. And how there earn the money? Not with doing only sending some pictures to earth.

3. There is only interested by the mass for a short time, but nobody really cares about it in a long time, especially if it is a one-way trip.

4. How will you ever stay so long on Mars? A habitat module for survive cost much mass, and how more mass it cost, how unrealistic it become be to ever reach mars, and even don't forget the re-entry.

5. We not even known good what the effects are to stay on a other surface then earth on a long term. And then doing a direct manned mars trip is just more stupid to do then.

This mission sounds more like: I'm the first space-tourist, but needs at this moment more PR, now I go say that I will do a manned mars mission without even known how to come there.

 

[Kyle]

Make it into a scenario.:thumbup:

I would but Glider's FH second stage self destructs a few hours into a scenario. :compbash2:

Well, first we got the unrealistic big-brother Mars project. Now we got a space-tourist person who clams he can do a one-way manned Mars mission. Well, this idea is very unrealistic because some points:

1. How there can survive 500 days in space? With only 1 or 2 dragons? Well, that can't, because its too small for oxygen for 500 days, or you will send only 1 person to it, but then its even more unrealistic and even dumb.

2. A one-way trip to Mars cost astronomic much money, and even orbiting it or a fly-by cost extreme much. And how there earn the money? Not with doing only sending some pictures to earth.

3. There is only interested by the mass for a short time, but nobody really cares about it in a long time, especially if it is a one-way trip.

4. How will you ever stay so long on Mars? A habitat module for survive cost much mass, and how more mass it cost, how unrealistic it become be to ever reach mars, and even don't forget the re-entry.

5. We not even known good what the effects are to stay on a other surface then earth on a long term. And then doing a direct manned mars trip is just more stupid to do then.

This mission sounds more like: I'm the first space-tourist, but needs at this moment more PR, now I go say that I will do a manned mars mission without even known how to come there.

1. We'll find out for the press conference, however the Dragon will be modified. The Dragon already is certified for six months on-orbit (expeditions to the ISS), so the vehicle itself can handle it. A modified Dragon to be able to handle solar flares and the stress of a 501 day mission will be developed for it. Look at the ISS though, it uses filtered and recycled air and it's been manned since 2001.

2. Not as much as you think, it can be done cheaply, around 250 million dollars. You're looking at this from a government run standpoint, where it takes a spacecraft the size of a football field with 12 people. That would take billions of dollars and years of development, with hundreds of thousands of people behind it. You have to pay those workers, you have to commit R&D to develop a brand new spacecraft, you have to develop a launcher to accommodate that spacecraft. The Falcon Heavy exists and can certainly take a Dragon beyond LEO.

3. No, but the public will be livid with anticipation at such a monumental event as going to Mars and possibly even Venus. Look at the interest during the Curiosity landing - the public loves this stuff. It's dangerous, new, and exciting. The entire United States and rest of the world stopped the moment Apollo 11 landed on the moon, they will do it again.

4. This isn't landing on Mars, it's a flyby and return.

5. Again, this isn't landing on Mars.

A mission like this needs to happen for us to be able to make that next step of actually landing on Mars. It needs to be proven. The ISS and Mir proved (in the case of the ISS is about to prove) that we can stay in space for a year. This will prove we can stay in space for longer, in a more confined space, and will prove a manned spacecraft can go to different planets without sterilizing the crew and vehicle.

 

[Alfastar]

1. We'll find out for the press conference, however the Dragon will be modified. The Dragon already is certified for six months on-orbit (expeditions to the ISS), so the vehicle itself can handle it. A modified Dragon to be able to handle solar flares and the stress of a 501 day mission will be developed for it. Look at the ISS though, it uses filtered and recycled air and it's been manned since 2001.

2. Not as much as you think, it can be done cheaply, around 250 million dollars. You're looking at this from a government run standpoint, where it takes a spacecraft the size of a football field with 12 people. That would take billions of dollars and years of development, with hundreds of thousands of people behind it. You have to pay those workers, you have to commit R&D to develop a brand new spacecraft, you have to develop a launcher to accommodate that spacecraft. The Falcon Heavy exists and can certainly take a Dragon beyond LEO.

3. No, but the public will be livid with anticipation at such a monumental event as going to Mars and possibly even Venus. Look at the interest during the Curiosity landing - the public loves this stuff. It's dangerous, new, and exciting. The entire United States and rest of the world stopped the moment Apollo 11 landed on the moon, they will do it again.

4. This isn't landing on Mars, it's a flyby and return.

5. Again, this isn't landing on Mars.

A mission like this needs to happen for us to be able to make that next step of actually landing on Mars. It needs to be proven. The ISS and Mir proved (in the case of the ISS is about to prove) that we can stay in space for a year. This will prove we can stay in space for longer, in a more confined space, and will prove a manned spacecraft can go to different planets without sterilizing the crew and vehicle.

1. Well, with the Dragon self is nothing wrong, but I don't think it can have oxygen for around 500 days. And you say the ISS, but that's a big space-station. A dragon is only a spacecraft, and how you see then a modified dragon spacecraft who can stay alive a crew circa 500 days? And how much mass it is? And how much max Delta-V can do the modified dragon?

2. Well, how can you call the Falcon heavy exists when it is not launched now? And don't we forget also who pays also the Falcon-9 series?

3. Well, The public only is interested in the launch and landing of it, but for the rest the mass public is not really interested, or there find a living elephant on Mars. But to be back serious, if there notes something big for the science, then still it hits not the headlines.

Point 4 and 5 let I with rest, because I understand and mostly agree with that.

 

[Kyle]

1. Well, with the Dragon self is nothing wrong, but I don't think it can have oxygen for around 500 days. And you say the ISS, but that's a big space-station. A dragon is only a spacecraft, and how you see then a modified dragon spacecraft who can stay alive a crew circa 500 days? And how much mass it is? And how much max Delta-V can do the modified dragon?

2. Well, how can you call the Falcon heavy exists when it is not launched now? And don't we forget also who pays also the Falcon-9 series?

3. Well, The public only is interested in the launch and landing of it, but for the rest the mass public is not really interested, or there find a living elephant on Mars. But to be back serious, if there notes something big for the science, then still it hits not the headlines.

Point 4 and 5 let I with rest, because I understand and mostly agree with that.

The first and second questions I don't feel like I can answer that satisfactory, there's a press conference scheduled for the 27th.. maybe that may be addressed. Regarding public interest - it's a 501 day mission, not even the greatest of missions will cover every single moment of it. You'll see mentions in the media everytime the spacecraft or spacecrafts reach a significant milestone in it's mission, and I'd even hazard to guess they'll film stuff enroute for the public to see. But it's not just the science we're interested in, it's the historical context. This mission will prove so much about our species if it happens, stuff we all knew we could do. Another piece of the puzzle in our history of exploration, following the grand missions of Apollo.

 

[N_Molson]

Look at the ISS though, it uses filtered and recycled air and it's been manned since 2001.

I'm sure you are aware that a LOT of pieces of hardware have been replaced both inside and outside the station. Maintenance is one of the main tasks of the crew. And it was worse on Mir.

So in the supplies you can probably add spare parts for the critical systems.

 

[sorindafabico]

nothing to do?

Playing...Orbiter? :lol:

 

[Kyle]

I'm sure you are aware that a LOT of pieces of hardware have been replaced both inside and outside the station. Maintenance is one of the main tasks of the crew. And it was worse on Mir.

So in the supplies you can probably add spare parts for the critical systems.

Oh yes, certainly, but that's over a course of 10 years, a lot of which technology that was built 10 years ago as well. We're talking about a more modern spacecraft for not even 2 years. :thumbup:

 

[Mader Levap]

Another fairy tale? Mars One, Golden Spike, now this? A lot of BS lately, frankly speaking.
Even if it is "only" flyby, it is still orders of magnitude harder than Moon mission. We cannot return back to Moon any time soon, and he want to do manned mission to/around Mars in 5 years??

Pure wank-fantasy.

 

[Cosmic Penguin]

A reminder that the press conference will start in 20 minutes here: http://www.visualwebcaster.com/event.asp?id=92584

And a paper about some key aspects of such a fly-by mission (which will be published on the IEEE journal) is available here: http://www.inspirationmars.com/Inspiration%20Mars_Feasibility%20Analysis_IEEE.pdf

Edit: And a fact sheet: http://www.inspirationmars.com/Inspiration%20Mars%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

 

[Kyle]

I'll cover with what I can.