Gun debate

dmc said:
Im sure alot of people own dogs here too. But if the burglar is determined enough, if he has a weapon im sure he can get rid of the dog. The shotgun was mainly an example. Im sure most people dont want to shoot somebody, but a gun will scare someone bad enough to most likely run, which I know a sword will too. lol
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If I am determined enough, you will be shot dead by me instantly as evil armed burglar. Especially if you might be armed. One problem less. Determination is a two-sided sword. You can't prepare for all worst-cases.

And escalation has no limits. You think you and your shotgun is enough? Imagine Brazilian conditions, where a whole gang robs you. When enough people have shotguns, you will get such situations, as the survival of the fittest also applies to crime.

I think, owning a gun alone does not help you a bit. A neighborhood watch will be far more effective - even unarmed.
 
Urwumpe said:
And escalation has no limits. You think you and your shotgun is enough? Imagine Brazilian conditions, where a whole gang robs you.
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This is why you invest in a machine gun, land mines, 30mm turrets, and a crack team of 20 mercenaries, which reminds me I must go feed them.
 
I believe that more people should have guns. Imagine how polite people would be if they think everyone has a loaded weapon ready to blow them away for bumping into them.
 
Urwumpe said:
If I am determined enough, you will be shot dead by me instantly as evil armed burglar. Especially if you might be armed. One problem less. Determination is a two-sided sword. You can't prepare for all worst-cases.

And escalation has no limits. You think you and your shotgun is enough? Imagine Brazilian conditions, where a whole gang robs you. When enough people have shotguns, you will get such situations, as the survival of the fittest also applies to crime.

I think, owning a gun alone does not help you a bit. A neighborhood watch will be far more effective - even unarmed.
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Agreed, but remember as your house is being broke into you will probably be scared and you just might pull that trigger just as fast as he/she will.

But the thing is if you outlaw guns, yes they will be harder to get but criminals will still get them no matter what. They already buy illegal guns, what makes you think they wont buy them when they are outlawed?
It all comes back to I would feel much safer being able to legally own a gun than not being able to and let the guy breaking into my house shoot me up and not have a firearm to do anything about it.
 
adamb193 said:
This is why you invest in a machine gun, land mines, 30mm turrets, and a crack team of 20 mercenaries, which reminds me I must go feed them.
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Which ends with 100 robbers roping down from helicopters and stealing nearly all which is worth something....
 
Urwumpe said:
I think, owning a gun alone does not help you a bit. A neighborhood watch will be far more effective - even unarmed.
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There's a problem there, though. Your average person does not stay up all night and into the early morning staring out his window looking for suspicious people. When Joe Robber breaks into your home, its most likely going to be the gunshots that wake people up and alert them that something's wrong.


If I am determined enough, you will be shot dead by me instantly as evil armed burglar.
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Another thing: most people can't shoot worth a s**t (look at most any gun range). Anyone can say "oh, all I have to do is shoot you quickly and you wont have a chance." Well, once those bullets start flying, accuracy goes out the window. That is the idea behind shotguns for home-defence: just point in the direction of the bad guy and pull the trigger. You are bound to hit something.

However, I agree that once you get close enough (grappling distance), a gun is typically not going to help.
 
Urwumpe said:
Of course, now the USA and Israel will mistake your home with Iran and bomb you to the stone age. Paramilitaries, 30mm cannons and a AAA tank. How could they be wrong?:rofl:
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Shhhhh!!! I am a small independent nation concerned about security, have you seen my civil nuclear power program?
 
Note -- This thread should not have been created to continue discussions from a closed thread. I will allow it this time, but if things get out of hand again I will personally close this thread and ban discussions of gun talk altogether. The staff will decide when and if the time is right to re-open a closed thread.

In the future, do not create another thread to continue discussions from a thread that was closed.
 
Dr Pepper said:
Another thing: most people can't shoot worth a s**t (look at most any gun range). Anyone can say "oh, all I have to do is shoot you quickly and you wont have a chance." Well, once those bullets start flying, accuracy goes out the window. That is the idea behind shotguns for home-defence: just point in the direction of the bad guy and pull the trigger. You are bound to hit something.
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You still have to bring the shotgun in the rough direction. Sounds easier as it is in real life. And when counted wrong, you hold one of them in check, while the other stands behind you. Guess who will have the best chances to survive this then.


Dr Pepper said:
However, I agree that once you get close enough (grappling distance), a gun is typically not going to help.
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Even when you use a shotgun, and don't need to aim good, you should still move the bad end of the gun away from your feet. If you are next making a noise like a love-hungry elephant, while sneaking up on the intruder, guess how good your chances are to get that far.
 
Actually it's a bit of a myth that you don't have to aim with a shotgun. Like with all weapons, it must be brought to bear although the range at which you will use it means that you can aim only with the front sight - but at <5 meters range, you do this with any firearm.

As for the the distance, and the placement of the bad guys, that's why your weapon must be part of an integrated plan rather than a single element. It's a last line of defence and in my case the bad guys have to pass through a narrow corridor before reaching the safe room.
 
My aplogies for the unintentional threadjacking ...

You're right ... this probably does belong more in a local or political forum.

Back to Orbiter issues ...
 
It is amazingly easy to hit things with a shotgun. Its all reflexes and natural movement. I suggest everyone shoot skeet at least once in their lives (its quite fun).

Legally you're pretty much in the clear killing a home intruder at night. Homes are usually more populated at night, therefore there exists the rationale that they may mean you physical harm. (somewhat less effective of an argument during the day, when many homes are unpopulated, but it is still there). So shoot first.

When it comes to a grappling situation, the person who is stronger + more wrestling experience + wants to live more will succeed. Having a taser/knife/chainsaw won't help you much if you don't have 2 of the three.
 
Eagle said:
When it comes to a grappling situation, the person who is stronger + more wrestling experience + wants to live more will succeed. Having a taser/knife/chainsaw won't help you much if you don't have 2 of the three.
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Trust me strength really doesn’t matter, if you have enough martial arts training you can defend against nearly anyone, once got in a fight with a kid twice my size who was on the football team, he charged me and tried to punch me a joint lock and choke hold later he was on the ground incapacitated.
 
Ghostrider said:
Happened to me too. I tripped him and ran away. Later I put itchy power in his swimsuit.
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At least you didn't have to resort to too much violence, but you should have seen his face, would have been red if it were not blueish, let him have some air.
 
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