Discussion Developing Addons for different Orbiter Versions

[GLS]

And I really hope there is going to be a stable Orbiter 2016 patch release (e.g. Orbiter 2016P1) soon

+1
Especially if it has the brakes and animations tickets I posted fixed. That would open some doors...

 

[Urwumpe]

Converting bitmaps or creating new meshes etc. If someone wants to spend a year of their time on this project, you are welcome to join the NASSP team, haha.

As far as I can tell, there is no easy answer to this question (Depends on the requirements). But both are worth it. :lol:

But since the panel layout in NASSP constantly makes me go lost - please go VC. :rofl:

SSU was the first time, I had a 3D version of the shuttle cockpit after knowing the old DOS shuttle simulator and the panel drawings. It was enlightening how much sense the panels suddenly make in usability, when you have them grouped together spatially. What was a wild switching between panels before, was suddenly a workflow.

 

[4throck]

I'd say 3D mesh with animations. Very rough implementation.
Panel background » 3D plane
Sprites » small 3D planes floating over the background plane.
Animate as normal, pushing elements up or down of the background as needed.


And now related to what we were discussing a few posts back:

How about allowing the use of NASSP meshes/textures with let's say Vessel Builder?
Talking about redistribution here (but no overwrites) and perhaps small tweaks or repaint.

I'd love to have a simple Apollo white CMS for Skylab, for example.
What are your thoughts on this ? What steps would prevent confusion between add-ons ?
I'm also asking because NASSP is exactly the opposite of more "arcade" add-ons.

---------- Post added at 15:34 ---------- Previous post was at 15:22 ----------

+1
Especially if it has the brakes and animations tickets I posted fixed. That would open some doors...

I only hope that we can finally define the dampening parameters on the vessel config files.
2016 only accepts 2010 style landing points that don't work very well From the Docs:

TouchdownPoints V V V 

3 surface contact points in local vessel coordinates.

 

[Donamy]

Also, MFD's need to be updated. LOLA comes to mind.

 

[N_Molson]

Still a bit on topic : which version of Visual Studio do you addon devs currently use ?

After a decade of inactivity (say a trip to Pluto :lol I'm willing to get back into this. A first step would be to upgrade the DG-launchers to 2016 (along with a "realistic" mod of the stock DG).

First step is to manage to recompile the stock DG !

 

[Urwumpe]

Still a bit on topic : which version of Visual Studio do you addon devs currently use ?

No problem with Visual Studio 2017 Community. I even manage to compile add-ons using CMake there.



I am sure, Visual Studio Code could also work well, if needed.

 

[N_Molson]

Thanks ! I love Windows, it has to install 4Gb of components :rofl:

No problem, I have optical fiber connection

 

[Urwumpe]

No problem, I have optical fiber connection

I had to reject the offer... 2 years of contract is too long for me now, I can't take it with me. But minimum 37 MBit/s by copper is also OK.



Yes, Visual Studio is a tiny bit invasive there... like MS Office, BTW.

 

[n122vu]

I'm at a point where I can devote some time to developing personal projects again, but the last time I tried I ran into compiler issues. Is there an up-to-date tutorial/checklist/cheat-sheet for setting up the development environment in current versions of Visual Studio (ex: VS2019 Community)?

If I can get the process down and come up with a quick set of steps, I'd be willing to create a YT video detailing the process so new developers can get up and running quickly.

 

[n72.75]

I'm at a point where I can devote some time to developing personal projects again, but the last time I tried I ran into compiler issues. Is there an up-to-date tutorial/checklist/cheat-sheet for setting up the development environment in current versions of Visual Studio (ex: VS2019 Community)?

If I can get the process down and come up with a quick set of steps, I'd be willing to create a YT video detailing the process so new developers can get up and running quickly.

We really should have some video tutorials on the subject. I'll set a reminder on my phone and share my knowledge on this later. I'm not a VS expert, but I do know enough to cause some damage.

 

[kuddel]

Videos are nice but very ineffective when it comes to little errors or steps that might need better presentation:
I would always prefer a written wiki article (which can of course have videos in it).
Those articles can be updated/enhanced very quickly.
Sure those articles have to be maintained as some might get outdated quite quickly (VS2017, VS2019, VS2020, ....)

 

[Urwumpe]

Wouldn't it be better, if there is something like a "project template generator", similar to Maven archetypes?

I don't think more documentation is the solution - starting a new Orbiter project and being able to compile a boilerplate should be made easy. With CMake as intermediate, the Visual Studio version would no longer matter as long as it can handle the Orbiter SDK, but creating a new CMake definition might be too much work for somebody returning to Orbiter, while adapting a project template for an specific add-on is easy. In many better open-source projects, you really just need to checkout the code and run CMake - if something is missing, it will tell you.

By the power of greyskull, I reserve the name "vab" for such a tool, so that starting a new project would be just typing "vab create youraddon" into a Visual Studio Code terminal window.

 

[n72.75]

Videos are nice but very ineffective when it comes to little errors or steps that might need better presentation:
I would always prefer a written wiki article (which can of course have videos in it).
Those articles can be updated/enhanced very quickly.
Sure those articles have to be maintained as some might get outdated quite quickly (VS2017, VS2019, VS2020, ....)

I tend to agree somewhat with your points, however....

People have different styles of learning though, and videos tend to cover more of the bases than articles.
The Wiki isn't a bad place for it, but from the looks of it.... https://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/The_Hazards_Of_Going_A_Good_Exclusive_Protein_Diet
...no one is updating or maintaining it any more.

Maybe someone should do that. I hate to constantly point to KSP, but if you look at this: https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Category:Modding
It's not a bad example of what we could have.

Wouldn't it be better, if there is something like a "project template generator", similar to Maven archetypes?

I don't think more documentation is the solution - starting a new Orbiter project and being able to compile a boilerplate should be made easy. With CMake as intermediate, the Visual Studio version would no longer matter as long as it can handle the Orbiter SDK, but creating a new CMake definition might be too much work for somebody returning to Orbiter, while adapting a project template for an specific add-on is easy. In many better open-source projects, you really just need to checkout the code and run CMake - if something is missing, it will tell you.

By the power of greyskull, I reserve the name "vab" for such a tool, so that starting a new project would be just typing "vab create youraddon" into a Visual Studio Code terminal window.

I really like the CMAKE idea. I'll confess I have very little knowledge of it, but I'm learning.

Whatever we make, we should follow the beta releases. And then release our tool soon after the release of Orbiter 202X, and maybe for 2016 as well. I'd like to help.

 

[Urwumpe]

Whatever we make, we should follow the beta releases. And then release our tool soon after the release of Orbiter 202X, and maybe for 2016 as well. I'd like to help.

That is why I work with the workspace outside the Orbiter folder and using a cache variable in CMake to specify which orbiter installation I want to use for compilation and testing. This way I can quickly switch between different orbiter versions or add-on environments (For example, testing XRSound vs Orbitersound) with one workspace and one set of sources.

 

[kuddel]

Every helping tool is appreciated, but I don't think having another tools to install helps n122vu . The steps described here are a good point to start:

Free Compiler Setup - OrbiterWiki

www.orbiterwiki.org

The article is outdated, yes.
A specific article for Visual Studio 2019 might be something in need as the article mentioned above seems to use Visual Studio 2005.

And a wiki can only be so good as the users that actively update/enhance it.
It's on us, don't wait for any miraculous thing to do all the stuff. If someone finds, making a video is easier...fine, just do it[*].

[*] ...and link to it from a nice orbiterwiki article ?

 

[n122vu]

And a wiki can only be so good as the users that actively update/enhance it.

Case-in-point, the existing OrbiterWiki article.

Some can read a paragraph once and put it straight into practice, others need a step-by-step walkthrough until it clicks. I think linking to a video from an updated article bridges that gap, but as you said, it's up to us to keep things up to date.

I for one am a visual learner. And for the new developers, if not videos, then at the very least screenshots of the steps so even the newest of the new can get in on the process without much hassle, whatever that process might be.

Wasn't there a more up-to-date video on YT at one point, by a former member? I looked briefly but haven't found it yet. I remember it too was out of date, only being valid for VS2010 or so. Some recent changes to VS weren't quite compatible, IIRC.

 

[n72.75]

Wasn't there a more up-to-date video on YT at one point, by a former member? I looked briefly but haven't found it yet. I remember it too was out of date, only being valid for VS2010 or so. Some recent changes to VS weren't quite compatible, IIRC.

The most recent one I remember was by @computerex. That may be the one you're thinking of. He even showed how to set up debugging, which would be of even less help, unfortunately on the newer versions of VS.

 

[n122vu]

The most recent one I remember was by @computerex. That may be the one you're thinking of. He even showed how to set up debugging, which would be of even less help, unfortunately on the newer versions of VS.

Yes, this was the one, from 11 years ago. It was a huge help back then, but not so much now.

 

[n72.75]

I feel old now...

 

[n72.75]

This may also be of some help, @n122vu