Config Generator(is it even possible?)

[Talon1]

Hello, I was wondering, is it even remotely possible to make a config generator/editor for orbiter? You know, a program where you can input the engine thrust, particle streams, aerodynamics, etc. with just a click of a button instead of typing it all out. I got this idea from a program called Par Editor. It was used to make par files (par files are essentially config files [here's a link to the site where I first found it:http://rcp.web.infoseek.co.jp/fms_e.html ) for airplanes in a simulator called FMS (Flying Model Simulator [here's a link to it's official site: http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html]). I know about this because I used to make airplanes for FMS (this is also where I got most of my modeling and programing experience from), and it was very easy to make planes for FMS that way.

So in conclusion, i'm asking if someone can make a config generator/editor for orbiter so it would be easier for people to make ships for orbiter.

EDIT:I've added a poll to this forum, but instead of a config generator, but it should say DLL generator. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[jedidia]

It wouldn't be so much of a trouble, however:

Configs present you with very little options if you don't do your own DLL, so there's not much sense in it.

and second, it really is not much of a difference, other than having a fancy visual environment. You still would need to know how it works. So there's not so much sense in it either way you turn it. To me, it's easier understanding the syntax of a text-file than figuring out the pecularities of a visual environment...

As far as I know ar81 attempted something in these lines, I think it was for Spacecraft3 inis, but I'm not sure. I don't know if it got finished either...

 

[Talon1]

It wouldn't be so much of a trouble, however:

Configs present you with very little options if you don't do your own DLL, so there's not much sense in it.

and second, it really is not much of a difference, other than having a fancy visual environment. You still would need to know how it works. So there's not so much sense in it either way you turn it. To me, it's easier understanding the syntax of a text-file than figuring out the pecularities of a visual environment...

As far as I know ar81 attempted something in these lines, I think it was for Spacecraft3 inis, but I'm not sure. I don't know if it got finished either...

Well, I was kind of hoping that someone would make a config generator that would "type out" all of the codes for you, instead of you typing it all out. I should know, I made around 10 config files already and it's a pain in the ass to type out codes like "COG=8" instead of just typing in the value with a program saying "Center of gravity=[Enter value here]" then typing it all out. Moreover, this would be a perfect tool for newbie addon developers because it will make it easier for them to understand how to make config files

 

[Hielor]

Well, I was kind of hoping that someone would make a config generator that would "type out" all of the codes for you, instead of you typing it all out. I should know, I made around 10 config files already and it's a pain in the ass to type out codes like "COG=8" instead of just typing in the value with a program saying "Center of gravity=[Enter value here]" then typing it all out. Moreover, this would be a perfect tool for newbie addon developers because it will make it easier for them to understand how to make config files

Instead of typing it out every time why don't you just start from one that already has it all and then just change the values?

Copy/paste is your friend.

 

[Talon1]

Instead of typing it out every time why don't you just start from one that already has it all and then just change the values?

Copy/paste is your friend.

Ok, I stand corrected.:dry: But a few points still stand, making a config generator/editor will help newbie addon developers understand how to make config files and make it easier for them, including everyone else. And when I mean "help newbie addon developers understand how to make config files" I mean instead of them trying to figure out what "COG=8" means, the config generator will show it as "Center of gravity=[Enter value here]", just like the par editor for FMS. It will also help all addon developers fine tune their config files because instead of trying to find it in the config file, the editor function will be able to show the line your looking for, and let you chage it. Also, none of you answered my question, is this even possible?

 

[tl8]

Why wouldn't it be possible?

The major thing is time, and usefulness

 

[unknown_orbiter]

I like this idea. It would make ship add-ons so much more simple! maybe you should start out with a base one (that allows you to design bases ). Not sure if there is already such a program, but start out simple.

 

[tl8]

Surface Base Generator
[ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2796"]Surface base wizard 1.3b[/ame]

 

[Talon1]

Why wouldn't it be possible?

The major thing is time, and usefulness

I like this idea. It would make ship add-ons so much more simple! maybe you should start out with a base one (that allows you to design bases ). Not sure if there is already such a program, but start out simple.

I totally agree with both of you. Also unknown_orbiter, there is already a program that helps you build bases for orbiter. Here's a link to it: [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=2796"]SURFACE BASE WIZARD[/ame]

 

[jedidia]

Oposing to a config-gen. the surface base wizard makes tons of sense, majorly because of the fact that you can SEE where you dump your buildings. All a config generator would lighten up is that one does not have to understand the syntax. And it's a lot of work for only that advantage, especially because the developer himself will probably never use it because he is tons faster just editing an old config.

 

[Artlav]

As i understand it in full scale, one make the mesh in whatever mesh making program he likes, then fire up the Orbiter Shipyard program, that allows him to define vessel interactions in graphical drag&drop way, kind of like putting docking port locations by clicking the mouse where the port is.

Define animations, define ports and gears, define VC surfaces and panel structures, define UMMU ports and parameters, engine locations and exhausts, etc, maybe even an option to add integrated systems simulation, all in a nice visual environment.
Then, the output from the program will be a vessel dll that makes it all work in Orbiter,
no ini's or cfg's like spacecraft3, and no coding involved.

Sounds like a grand idea, allowing all the graphic artists that make great meshes but can't code a calculator to make add-ons with interactivity as good as the ones made by programmers who can't make a mesh of a cube.

 

[ar81]

Coding a surface base or a scenario generator is basically handling data that will fill a template, just like digitally filling a template when you have to generate tons of different letters out of a single template in an office. The difference is that what data is added is just a matter of setting conditions to add or not to add certain things.

For example, you have this letter template

Hello <X> 
My name is <Y>
I would like to order <A>, <B> and <C>

And you might want it to read

Hello Mary
My name is John
I would like to order Bread, Butter and Jam

You handle data for A, B, C, X and Y and you create an interfase to do that. Adding surface base elements is just a matter of handling data as an array.

Handling mesh data is a bit more complex, because you have several tables (triangles, vertices, normals, UV, materials, textures) that reference each other. In AN8 format, meshes are even more complex because you also handle quaternions and grouping.

Also, handling animations would also require to monitor consistency between SEQuences and COMPonents.
So it would require extra coding.
It is more a matter of time than anything else.

As I see it, if such a DLL code generator is made by someone, it would be very helpful.

In my vessel code scenario generators I use to display text before saving, so people can make all modifications they want, or they can copy it elsewhere.

Making such generator could prove very useful, and a person with basic skills in programming could do it, since it si just handling strings.

If you want to do it, here is a free version of Visual Basic
http://www.thevbzone.com/vbcce.htm
And here some tutorials
http://cuinl.tripod.com/tutorials.htm
http://www.devdos.com/vb/wanttobe.shtml

 

[Dig Gil]

Once at Dan's Forum was talked about a subject like this one. I'll look for it later.

 

[Whatu]

As i understand it in full scale, one make the mesh in whatever mesh making program he likes, then fire up the Orbiter Shipyard program, that allows him to define vessel interactions in graphical drag&drop way, kind of like putting docking port locations by clicking the mouse where the port is.

Define animations, define ports and gears, define VC surfaces and panel structures, define UMMU ports and parameters, engine locations and exhausts, etc, maybe even an option to add integrated systems simulation, all in a nice visual environment.
Then, the output from the program will be a vessel dll that makes it all work in Orbiter,
no ini's or cfg's like spacecraft3, and no coding involved.

Sounds like a grand idea, allowing all the graphic artists that make great meshes but can't code a calculator to make add-ons with interactivity as good as the ones made by programmers who can't make a mesh of a cube.

That could be a giant leap for the orbiter community, and a small step for Artlav... :lol:

A program like that would be very useful (and :speakcool

 

[jedidia]

Well, a generater for whole DLLs would be a whole other kind of dog... Doing a generator for simple configs is not that difficult, but makes not much sense. Doing a DLL generator would actually be really usefull to some, but oh teh horrorz coding such a darn thing. And, it will allways be restrictive. You cannot swap a programming language for a sandbox, the freedom of a coder will allways be exponentially biger...

And don't give Artlav silly ideas... he HAS to get that OVP finished first!!

 

[ar81]

Yes, Artlav. Perhaps in 2020 you might try... OVP comes first...:speakcool:

 

[Artlav]

Doing a DLL generator would actually be really usefull to some, but oh teh horrorz coding such a darn thing.
And don't give Artlav silly ideas... he HAS to get that OVP finished first!!

Yes, Artlav. Perhaps in 2020 you might try... OVP comes first...:speakcool:

Unfortunately, i've already made a DLL code generator part and working on the interface, specifically animation definition system, so it's too late now :compbash2:.
The graphics part are mostly here too, thanks to OVP, so it's some "nice interface drawing" worth of a problem.
Hopefully, a proof-of-concept upload-and-forget style release will be this week.

And, it will allways be restrictive. You cannot swap a programming language for a sandbox, the freedom of a coder will allways be exponentially biger...

Restrictive it is, but what is better - figure out the numbers for the animations, groups, thruster and airlock locations, etc by hand, then type them into a code or cfg,
or pick the positions, drag the animations and align their timings all in one "do and try" editor?

 

[jedidia]

Unfortunately, i've already made a DLL code generator part and working on the interface, specifically animation definition system, so it's too late now

You've got to be kidding me! If there's a coders pantheon, you're up there pretty far!!

Restrictive it is, but what is better - figure out the numbers for the animations, groups, thruster and airlock locations, etc by hand, then type them into a code or cfg,
or pick the positions, drag the animations and align their timings all in one "do and try" editor?

Well, for ANIMATIONS something like this will save a lot of time indeed. I was more thinking of systems simulation. But as I said, if you really get a DLL generator working, that would lighten things up for a lot of people. It would also give you a good head-start for enhancing the dll, especially since you're doing this with a real visual interface where you actually see the ship. Of course I never thought this impossible, I just doubted very much that someone would go through all the trouble. But it seems you're doing such stuff before breakfast! :speakcool:

 

[Talon1]

As i understand it in full scale, one make the mesh in whatever mesh making program he likes, then fire up the Orbiter Shipyard program, that allows him to define vessel interactions in graphical drag&drop way, kind of like putting docking port locations by clicking the mouse where the port is.

Define animations, define ports and gears, define VC surfaces and panel structures, define UMMU ports and parameters, engine locations and exhausts, etc, maybe even an option to add integrated systems simulation, all in a nice visual environment.
Then, the output from the program will be a vessel dll that makes it all work in Orbiter,
no ini's or cfg's like spacecraft3, and no coding involved.

Sounds like a grand idea, allowing all the graphic artists that make great meshes but can't code a calculator to make add-ons with interactivity as good as the ones made by programmers who can't make a mesh of a cube.

Now that's a super idea!!! Basically, instead of a config generator, a DLL generator is even better!!! And that idea of being able to see the mesh while your defining your docking ports, your animations, etc., is briliant!!! I'm really liking this idea!!!:speakcool: Yet it won't be me making this, I'm way to far from bieng able to do this...

That could be a giant leap for the orbiter community, and a small step for Artlav... :lol:

A program like that would be very useful (and :speakcool

I totally agree with you:speakcool:


I've added a poll to this forum, but instead of a config generator, but it should say DLL generator. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[Talon1]

Since this is the addon request forum, can someone please make this? I would love to make this, but I don't even remotely have the skills to do this.