Backyard to orbit: consequences?

[Artlav]

I'm putting together a story of the second space age, and need help to get some details right.

At the start of that age there was a creative crazy fellow who invented an uber-powerful rocket engine out of an obvious, yet missed physics construct.
He proceeded to build a spacecraft in his backyard, then successfully launched himself in it into Earth orbit, coming down later that day, using powered descent (the thing was that good), with only casualties being several acres of grass and trees.

The way that kind of people often think - outlandish and out of this world, he got no idea about what kind of regulations there are, and who should be notified, so he launched clear into the blue with as much warning to anyone as lighting a firecracker will get.

So, the question is - what would be the consequences of such a launch?
The worst case i see is that someone may take his ship as an incoming ICBM, and launch a retaliation strike, provoking an adequate response from the place that strike was aimed to, pretty much an armageddon-scale "oops".
Less dramatic consequences are what is going to await him on the ground - fines, prison, worse?

And a second scenario possibility - just who is enough to be warned of such event, so that the fellow could get away with it without destroying the world and facing serious legal actions?
Doing it legal is hardly an option - one will likely die before the paperwork buerocracy will get it passed, or succumb under torture of needing to rote-memorise megabytes of data about current rocket legislations and science to get the needed licenses.

 

[MeDiCS]

If I were him, I would neve, EVER, land again .

But since he HAS to land, I think it can be mistaken for some kind of terrorist ICBM (if you were in the US or any other 'advanced' nation) or else, hardly noticeable.

 

[ar81]

Politicians want power and money.
They won't start third world war becuase of it.

But for sure it would raise alert of military forces around the world.
As for legal actions I am sure that the government that catches him will exchange his freedom for his invention and all countries would struggle to monopolize his technology.

Or he could face the fate of Gerald Bull...

 

[JamesG]

In the US you actually have to get a "launch license", have your craft inspected and certified as airworthy (spaceworthy?), and file a flight plan with the FAA before you can legally launch anything larger than a model rocket with max alt. of 1000 ft. Having insurance would also be a good idea because some dumb ass is likely to crash his car while rubber necking at the rocket and then sue you for it.

Not doing any of those steps will get you in deep doo-doo with "the man". Why do you think Sea Launch goes thru the hassle of towing their rockets out to sea to launch.

Not sure about other countries. If I were going to try this, I'd tow it just across the border into Mexico, pay off the local Federales, and launch it from there.

 

[Linguofreak]

At the start of that age there was a creative crazy fellow who invented an uber-powerful rocket engine out of an obvious, yet missed physics construct.
He proceeded to build a spacecraft in his backyard, then successfully launched himself in it into Earth orbit, coming down later that day, using powered descent (the thing was that good), with only casualties being several acres of grass and trees.

And he does this all with a single stage? What kind of ISP does the thing get? Keep in mind that thrust*ISP = power, and that thrust has to be at least your spacecraft mass * 1g if you want to do vertical launch (you can get away with less if you use a runway takeoff).

In all likelyhood, the launch of his spacecraft is not going to be mistaken for a launch of a nuclear missile, but rather for a nuclear detonation. And it will have a similar effect on the surrounding countryside (and alot more of it than a few acres). And alot of what's keeping us from getting into space easily and cheaply isn't not knowing how to build some type of über-rocket, it's from the fact that we don't know how to keep the über-rocket from melting itself.

You have to keep the Kzinti lesson in mind here: "A reaction drive's efficiency as a weapon is in direct proportion to its efficiency as a drive."

It doesn't matter if your drive operates on a simple but somehow missed principle of physics. It still has to obey the law of conservation of energy. And conservation of energy says that a drive that can get you from backyard to orbit is not only the type of drive that you don't want people building in their backyards, it's the type of drive that will obliterate any backyard that it takes off from.

 

[Eagle]

I think a vehicle making a powered descent can be distinguished from a ICBM (note Ballistic is in the name). Also you'll be tracked at least by the time you make it to space. (especially if you're charring acres of land when flying low.)

Realistically there's no way to sneak back anywhere on Earth, because there will quite a few people interested in what you have. But international waters or a host country who doesn't care are about the only way to avoid legal problems. But with an engine like that, you might as well launch from the oceans anyways (maybe even just launch the boat that you rode up in.)

 

[Nickmick95]

Fighter jets might be able to intercept it, but once it gets into orbit, how will it preform a de-orbit burn and will it have a re-entry shield? I hardly doubt that a man could construct such a craft to survive.

 

[JamesG]

Not likely after the first 10 seconds before it goes supersonic and beyond the service ceiling of the aircraft.

And he does this all with a single stage? What kind of ISP does the thing get? Keep in mind that thrust*ISP = power, and that thrust has to be at least your spacecraft mass *

You are thinking too much.

I read a good novel while in Iraq that I can't recall the title or author of where the premise was that a savant devised a way of creating an unobtanium sphere around matter and could shrink them to to any size at will, compressing the matter within on a particle level. He could also induce a pin hole in them creating a powerful rocket. A couple of teenagers and a washed up old astronaught built a ship around it and took it to Mars ahead of NASA and the Chinese. Good book.

Point is, the actual technology and way of getting to orbit wasn't the focus here, but what would happen if someone were to take a homebuilt spacecraft for a spin.

 

[Eagle]

Fighter jets might be able to intercept it, but once it gets into orbit, how will it preform a de-orbit burn and will it have a re-entry shield? I hardly doubt that a man could construct such a craft to survive.

You don't need a reentry shield if you come down slow enough. Hence powered reentry.

It just takes a lot more fuel if you don't let aerodynamics slow you down.

 

[Linguofreak]

Point is, the actual technology and way of getting to orbit wasn't the focus here, but what would happen if someone were to take a homebuilt spacecraft for a spin.

Well... Think of the guy building the homebuilt spacecraft as a young whippersnapper with a hot rod. Think of launching the spacecraft as revving up the engine and blazing down a residential street at 60 mph at two in the morning. Imagine how the neighbors will react. Now consider that the neighbors closest to the launch site are probably on fire, and that the noise has probably woken up half a continent. Adjust the neighbors' reaction accordingly.

 

[JamesG]

Very well. Yes, damage, disturbance, or annoyance is likely to involve criminal charges and potentially civil litigation. Might be a prudent choice to move the launch site to your uncle's farm out in the country...

 

[Nickmick95]

You don't need a reentry shield if you come down slow enough. Hence powered reentry.

It just takes a lot more fuel if you don't let aerodynamics slow you down.

Uh.... Don't you think it would kinda be going 17,000 MPH if its going to orbit the earth?

 

[Linguofreak]

Uh.... Don't you think it would kinda be going 17,000 MPH if its going to orbit the earth?

Yes, but as long as, upon reentry, you get rid of most of that speed with your engines before you get really deep into the atmosphere (that's why we call it a powered reentry), you don't need a heat shield.

Of course, any engine spunky enough to allow you to do single-stage-to-orbit-with-powered-reentry without melting is likely to be a very good heatshield.


-----Posted Added-----

Very well. Yes, damage, disturbance, or annoyance is likely to involve criminal charges and potentially civil litigation. Might be a prudent choice to move the launch site to your uncle's farm out in the country...

Whereupon your uncle disinherits you for crisping his house, his barn, his cornfields, and his neighbors' cornfields. And causing massive property damage by spooking every cow and horse within 50 miles into a terrified rampage.

More like "Might be a prudent choice to launch from Antarctica. What's that? 'Protest March of the Penguins'?"

 

[Eagle]

Read it again

Ack posted to fast. I guess I figured the hypothetical spacecraft would have insanely too much delta v.
:sorry: <- Me
:withstupid:<- also Me

 

[RisingFury]

Just for the record: This thread is leet! :lol::lol::lol:
"Protest March of the Penguins" - that's just awesome :lol::lol::lol:


Anyways... I doubt that even if you launched from a secret location that your ship would be mistaken for an ICBM. Especially if you reached orbit.

I would imagine that radar signature of the ship would be a bit different then that of the ICBM.
And if there ever was a mistake on the way to the orbit, it'd be gone upon powered reentry.

Though you'd land into a big pile of poo unless you traded your ship for a presidential pardon...

 

[JamesG]

Of course, any engine spunky enough to allow you to do single-stage-to-orbit-with-powered-reentry without melting is likely to be a very good heatshield.

Whereupon your uncle disinherits you for crisping his house, his barn, his cornfields, and his neighbors' cornfields. And causing massive property damage by spooking every cow and horse within 50 miles into a terrified rampage.

Stop with the negative waves man...
:dry:

You are making the presumption of current mass to energy reactions. Or you are mentally picturing an "Orion" nuclear powered something taking off from the surface?

A spacecraft only has to produce at max 9.7 m/s of acceleration to get off the ground and can achieve orbit if it can wind up at a velocity of ~17K mph. How it does that does not matter.

Think outside your box.

 

[Linguofreak]

J
"Protest March of the Penguins" - that's just awesome :lol::lol::lol:

Thank you.

Anyways... I doubt that even if you launched from a secret location that your ship would be mistaken for an ICBM. Especially if you reached orbit.

I would imagine that radar signature of the ship would be a bit different then that of the ICBM.
And if there ever was a mistake on the way to the orbit, it'd be gone upon powered reentry.

Though you'd land into a big pile of poo unless you traded your ship for a presidential pardon...

No. Poo is flamable. Your engine exhaust is... hot. To say the least.


-----Posted Added-----

You are making the presumption of current mass to energy reactions. Or you are mentally picturing an "Orion" nuclear powered something taking off from the surface?

You see, the problem is that to be propellant-efficient enough to be able to do the whole SSTO-and-back thing, you pretty much have to have a drive with power levels on the order of nuclear Orion. It's a simple matter of what the laws of physics say. Technology can increase your ability to handle the power you need, and to eliminate power loss to waste heat, but it can't reduce the fundamental minimum amount of power needed.

 

[JamesG]

The basic premise of this scenario is that our hero has stumbled across a method that bypasses the usual rules and limitations (anti-gravity, magical hamsters, whatever). Otherwise he has to build himself a Delta or Soyuz rocket, and that is not very realistic.

 

[Artlav]

Though you'd land into a big pile of poo unless you traded your ship for a presidential pardon...

Raising another related question - if such an object was detected, what would ground stations assume?
Would there be any attempts to contact it and using what frequencies/protocols?
Or will the various authorities and three-letter suitmen just rush to the launch site, under assumption that it is some kind of unmanned Bad Thing™ that went up?

The basic premise of this scenario is that our hero has stumbled across a method that bypasses the usual rules and limitations (anti-gravity, magical hamsters, whatever).

With antigravity you just go up, and if your ship is plastic, no radar will pick it up. Boring.

You see, the problem is that to be propellant-efficient enough to be able to do the whole SSTO-and-back thing, you pretty much have to have a drive with power levels on the order of nuclear Orion. It's a simple matter of what the laws of physics say. Technology can increase your ability to handle the power you need, and to eliminate power loss to waste heat, but it can't reduce the fundamental minimum amount of power needed.

DeltaGlider can do it, yet noone argues about excess un-realism of it. The characteristic of an invention is that it makes new rules or circumvent limitations derived from known rules.

I was thinking it as a reaction drive with independent thrust and ISP throttling - it goes low-isp, consuming about 60% of fuel for the first and last 10 Km's to minimize the damage, and blasting on full power once up safe. Waste heat dissipation might get problematic, but as was noted, i'm more interested in social and political aspects of such an event rather than an absolutely accurate and plausible engine design.

Politicians want power and money.
They won't start third world war becuase of it.

Politicians are one thing, a tired chinese officer on long-range radar watch is another. No one knows what someone could think about a bright unidentified rocket going his way.

As for legal actions I am sure that the government that catches him will exchange his freedom for his invention and all countries would struggle to monopolize his technology.

Isn't it contradictive? If one government gets the technology, monopolizing it will be easy for them, and near-impossible for others, if it goes public, no one will be able to monopolize it, since every engineer will be able to build a spaceship.

In the US you actually have to get a "launch license", have your craft inspected and certified as airworthy (spaceworthy?), and file a flight plan with the FAA before you can legally launch anything larger than a model rocket with max alt. of 1000 ft.

Right, getting another legal impossibility - no one will certify a home-made tin can with near-zero system redundancy for manned spaceflight.

I read a good novel while in Iraq that I can't recall the title or author of where the premise was that a savant devised a way of creating an unobtanium sphere around matter and could shrink them to to any size at will, compressing the matter within on a particle level. He could also induce a pin hole in them creating a powerful rocket. A couple of teenagers and a washed up old astronaught built a ship around it and took it to Mars ahead of NASA and the Chinese. Good book.

Sounds good too.
Do you remember any clues?
Like names, descriptions, quotes?

But with an engine like that, you might as well launch from the oceans anyways (maybe even just launch the boat that you rode up in.)

The workshop and a launch site are situated in a countryside a couple hundred kilometers from Moscow, so getting to any kind of international waters is problematic.
Then again, boats cost money.

 

[Artlav]

Hm.
Anyone?