Apollo 9 LM Landing and Rendezvous Radar self-test error???

dak4482

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Hi all.

Was going thru Turry's play thru of the Apollo 9 mission and noticed that in the LM Landing radar and rendezvous radar self test V62 was used for both to initiate the self test. Shouldnt this be V63? The AOH shows V62 to be an attitude error display while V63 is to initiate the self test. Also the flight plan section 4 of test objectives references the same section in the AOH.
 

indy91

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They rearranged the verbs some time between Apollo 9 and 10. So it's a bit different in Sundance (Apollo 9 LGC software) than all later versions. I tracked it down to program change request (PCR) 420.2:

1702489911808.png


This was implemented in Luminary 31, some time in mid 1968. Apollo 10 flew Luminary 69. The Apollo 9 LGC software was too finalized at that point I guess, so they didn't make this change there. This is a luxury problem we have due to being able to use all flown LGC software in NASSP :D

Compare the list of verbs in the G&N Dictionaries,

Apollo 9: https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/apollo_9_final_dictionary.pdf
Apollo 11: https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/Documents/ApolloXI_FlightCrewG&NDictionary_5-29-1969.pdf
 

dak4482

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Thx. had been using the LM6 AOH Vol 1 instead of the LM3 that I somehow overlooked . My bad. Also what are the 405 and 406 R's used for that appear in the docked DPS burns. I cant seem to find those in any of the AOH listings
 

dak4482

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NEVER MIND. Found those there too hahaha Sure wish we had VOL II of that.
 

dak4482

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New question. Is there a way to print out a copy of the checklist MFD that is contained in the software? I'd like to compare it to the excel checklists and whats in the AOH and the abbreviated checklists.
 

rcflyinghokie

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New question. Is there a way to print out a copy of the checklist MFD that is contained in the software? I'd like to compare it to the excel checklists and whats in the AOH and the abbreviated checklists.
So I wrote the checklist MFD procedures using combinations of all procedures for a mission, then modifying timelines to facilitate flying two spacecraft with 3 crew single handedly. The checklist MFD checklists are in the doc folders as excel files.

So you can compare but each one I wrote mission specific, and there is MUCH more used for them than an abbreviated checklist and AOH.

Is there a specific mission comparison that is concerning?
 

dak4482

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I was following Turry's Apollo 9 replay and he said he was using the checklist MFD, but in the timeline between 72:00:00 and 76:40:00 he did alot of steps that were not in the excel checklists - a PGA integrity check, depress and repress and others - things that were either much earlier or later than in the excel checklist. Havent had a chance to ask him why so was just going to compare the MFD. So the Checklist MFD should be identical to the excel checklists? I almost got lost a couple of times bouncing back and forth hahaha. But you did a great job with these. I did find the AOH's EXTREMELY helpful in following along some of the steps. They gave some explanations that helped make alot of sense as to what was happening.
You dont by any chance have a copy of the VOL II AOH for LM3 do you. The only one I could find close to then was for LM5. Also do you know if they updated the CSM AOH for SC104 Apollo 9? The version online has a whole section of the LM interface section 4.5 as "TBD". Wonder if those were ever updated and released. I put in a few FOIA requests for Apollo 9 AOH's but not holding my breath. NARA sent me an index of their holdings for record group 255 that indexes all their holdings for Mercury thru the Space shuttle. Its 138 pages and the different sections are very broad but there were some VERY interesting ones such as Apollo Drawings", lots of technical documents from Grumman, TRW, etc, the MIT documents, and best of all section E.156L "Flight Operations Handbooks". woo hoo. But at 80 cents per page its VERY expensive for a 500-700 page AOH. Well we'll see what happens. hoping to get some more detailed indexes for the various sections that may interest us.
 
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rcflyinghokie

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So the Checklist MFD should be identical to the excel checklists? I almost got lost a couple of times bouncing back and forth hahaha.
Which excel checklists are you referring to, there are checklist files the MFD uses in the Doc/Project Apollo - NASSP/Checklists folder..all other docs are pretty depreciated in the install since we have obtained lots more we cant include with the install. Also numerous checklist updates have been made since Turry flew Apollo 9, so the current state is much more updated than when he flew it.
You dont by any chance have a copy of the VOL II AOH for LM3 do you.
AOH isn't really mission specific, it has the bulk procedures for the hardware but the checklists for the mission is the best resource for how things are done. I would encourage you checking out the VAGC doc library. Here is the link to our AOH repo https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/links2.html#OperationsHandbooks
 

dak4482

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Only for Apollo 9 which is what I'm running now I kind of have to disagree with you on that. With the exception of the G&N Dictionary I cant find ANY checklist for the Apollo 9 LM procedures so almost everything written for the LM procedures must have come from the AOH no? Unless I'm missing some documentation were used in writing the LM procedures. (Which I hope I am as that would explain alot of my confusion hahaha) For example on Apollo 9 the flight plan section 4 shows the detailed test objectives for the mission and under procedures it consistantly references the AOH for that vehicle. Again generally what you said is true but for the Apollo 9 LM procedures I dont think so. Please correct me if I'm wrong. This is very much a learning process for me so if I'm way off base feel free to say so. No offense taken hahaha.

I guess I'm just a documentation junkie and try to get as much info as I can on a particular subject.
Anyway, thx for the info. This is such a great experience being able to understand how infinitely complicated these S/C and missions were thru the use of Orbiter and NASSP. Thx to all on a fantastic program. It is VERY much appreciated.
 

rcflyinghokie

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Only for Apollo 9 which is what I'm running now I kind of have to disagree with you on that. With the exception of the G&N Dictionary I cant find ANY checklist for the Apollo 9 LM procedures so almost everything written for the LM procedures must have come from the AOH no?
Oh we have a lot of procedures for 9. Some of course have been taken from LM procedures on other missions, but the LM activation procedures, rendezvous procedures, computer procedures etc. we have scans or copies that were used to make 9's procedures. All might not be in an online repository but I have them personally and used them for all of our 9 procedures, and as I stated, used educated guesses based on my experience with other missions and the LM to fill in the gaps so to speak. So a little off base yes just by not seeing the big picture behind the scenes that went into it.
 
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