News Another space startup proposes to use aerospike engines - this time for a SSTO!

RGClark

Mathematician
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
1,635
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Location
Philadelphia
Website
exoscientist.blogspot.com
ARCA Unveils the World’s first Single-Stage-to-Orbit Rocket.
Published: 31 Mar , 2017
by Matt Williams
https://www.universetoday.com/134812/arca-unveils-worlds-first-single-stage-orbit-rocket/

Specs here:

http://www.arcaspace.com/en/Haas_2CA/specs.htm

As SpaceX is showing, it is possible to get a high mass ratio stage using dense propellants. But the question I have is the ARCA stage is pressure-fed. This requires heavy tanks to hold the highly pressurized fuel, even when using composite tanks as they are proposing.

I'd like to see what their propellant mass to empty tank mass ratio is first before I believe it's possible.

Bob Clark
 

RisingFury

OBSP developer
Addon Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
6,427
Reaction score
492
Points
173
Location
Among bits and Bytes...
Oh, they proposed it, did they? Do they have a flight ready prototype yet? What's that? No? Yea, didn't think so. We'll talk when they're ready to fly.

Talk is cheap, hardware is not.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
Well, they should get their chance to produce real hardware. Their plan isn't too bad, but I doubt it will work out as a business.
 

boogabooga

Bug Crusher
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
1
Points
0
Numbers aren't adding up:

In this configuration, the rocket is capable of delivering 100kg (220lbs) to Low Earth Orbit (LEO), at a cost of $1 million per launch (or $10,000/kg; $4,545/lb).

This is several times what SpaceX can do with its Falcon 9 rocket, which can deliver 22,800 km payloads to orbit for $62 million a launch – which works out to about $2719/kg or $1233/lb.

I'm under the belief that the small launch market will only work if they can get much cheaper/kg than launching on one of the big boys. Or else, people will just keep on doing piggyback. Also, what do the Russians charge?

Making excuses as to why small launch is more expensive misses the point of the market. Also, SSTO seems to be an old-fashioned gimmick at this point, since that makes re-use more difficult. And I think that at this point, re-use looks like a more promising approach to lowering costs unless it can be done in conjunction with SSTO (Skylon).
 

RGClark

Mathematician
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
1,635
Reaction score
1
Points
36
Location
Philadelphia
Website
exoscientist.blogspot.com
The new start-up Arca Space Corporation will test this year for the very
first time, more than 50 years after the aerospike was developed, the high
altitude performance of an aerospike on their liquid-fueled demonstrator for
their planned SSTO:

Flight of the Aerospike: Episode 1.

ARCA to perform historic space flight of aerospike engine.
Published by Klaus Schmidt on Sat Jun 17, 2017 9:30 am
For 60 years the aerospace industry has been waiting for this moment, a
moment ARCA Space Corporation will offer to the scientific community in
August this year by launching the Demonstrator 3 space vehicle: the first
space flight of an aerospike rocket engine. Soon we are going to know if the
hopes and dreams of generations of aerospace engineers, in their pursuit to
create what is supposed to be the most efficient rocket engine in the world,
will materialize. We hope to confirm that aerospike rocket engines, which
are significantly more fuel efficient than the current engines, are
achievable and that they can lead the way to the creation of Single Stage to
Orbit rockets, which are more cost efficient and responsive.
https://spacefellowship.com/news/ar...istoric-space-flight-of-aerospike-engine.html

Rocket engine nozzles now are of a fixed bell shape. However, it is known a
bell nozzle is most efficient at a certain altitude and less efficient at
other altitudes. As an example, the SpaceX Merin engines for sea level use
have an Isp of 312 s. But the Merlin Vacuum optimized for vacuum use given a
much longer nozzle has a vacuum Isp of 348 s.

Since all orbital rockets operate in stages, this lack of efficiency at
varying altitudes was considered acceptable. But the SSTO concept
(single-stage-to-orbit) would use a single engine all the way to orbit. So
there were investigated methods such as the aerospike that could maintain
high efficiency at all altitudes.

However, it came to be believed that SSTO's were not feasible, either
technically or economically. So little research went into the aerospike.
This is extremely unfortunate. In fact, the aerospike can increase payload
for all rockets including staged ones. If the aerospike or other altitude
compensation had been used for existing rockets, it would have been observed
that at the increased Isp, several existing first stages could be SSTO's.
For instance, the famous Saturn 1C first stage of the Saturn V could be
SSTO with altitude compensation to give it a max vacuum Isp of 360 s
instead of its 304 s.

As I said this increase in payload using the aerospike can be significant. I
estimated it could be 25% for the two-stage Falcon 9. How much is the increase
is dependent on the individual rocket. But for a multi-stage solid rocket launch
system I was investigating I found the aerospike doubled the payload to orbit!

This is because solid rocket motors typically get about 285 s vacuum ISP.
But using a rocket simulation program, I found the vacuum Isp could get as
as high as 325 s and above. The required bell size though would be quite
large, and would extend far outside the width of the rocket body, making it
impractical. But the aerospike could do this without extending outside the
rocket body's width.

In short the reason why the aerospike hasn't been used for any rocket liquid
or solid is because of the idea it is only useful for SSTO's and because of
the idea that SSTO's aren't useful.

Both of these ideas are incorrect.

Bob Clark
 
Last edited:

PhantomCruiser

Wanderer
Moderator
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,603
Reaction score
168
Points
153
Location
Cleveland
Episode 2 is up...

[ame="http://youtu.be/-lGJz1i7VxQ"]Flight of the Aerospike: Episode 2 - The Propellant Tank - YouTube[/ame]
 

boogabooga

Bug Crusher
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
1
Points
0
SSTO was a dream back when the idea of a reuse was bat dung crazy. Now, it just seems late to the party.
 

Keatah

Active member
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
2,218
Reaction score
2
Points
38
It's a PowerPoint rocket. Till it flies. If it flies.
 

Donamy

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Beta Tester
Joined
Oct 16, 2007
Messages
6,907
Reaction score
205
Points
138
Location
Cape
Aren't they all ?
 

Col_Klonk

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2015
Messages
470
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
This here small Dot
They obviously used a cheap fashion designer - those 'clothes' were ridiculous fits. :)
The idea I think is old... New ideas will take over ever so quickly.
:cheers:

edt.. That vid with the electronics pcbs... Sorry I've worked with Mil-Spec.. that stuff in the video is commercial spec.. NOT Mil-spec+ required for space ;) !!!
 
Last edited:

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
edt.. That vid with the electronics pcbs... Sorry I've worked with Mil-Spec.. that stuff in the video is commercial spec.. NOT Mil-spec+ required for space ;) !!!

That is enough if you just want to reach space. Maybe enough for some hours of operation in orbit.

But I don't recommend flying over populated regions with that.
 

PhantomCruiser

Wanderer
Moderator
Tutorial Publisher
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
5,603
Reaction score
168
Points
153
Location
Cleveland
I've heard the values of Mil-Spec for most of my adult life/career. I've also had Mil-Spec parts fall apart at first use because they were made by the lowest bidder. It aint always as good as you think.

Anyway, testing soon. They will either get a successful start, or an giant fireball. Either way there should be some good data out of the deal. I wish them the best of luck.



[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcNvvqu8k-I"]Demonstrator 3 Aerospike - Ready for Testing - YouTube[/ame]
 
Last edited:

Artlav

Aperiodic traveller
Addon Developer
Beta Tester
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
5,790
Reaction score
780
Points
203
Location
Earth
Website
orbides.org
Preferred Pronouns
she/her
I've also had Mil-Spec parts fall apart at first use
Huh, back in USSR that would have been a capital offense (unless falling apart very rapidly was the intended use).
 

Dickie

Wannabe Rocket Scientist
Donator
Joined
Apr 13, 2008
Messages
161
Reaction score
3
Points
18
Location
Out there...
I've heard the valuse of Mil-Spec for most of my adult life/career. I've also had Mil-Spec parts fall apart at first use because they were made by the lowest bidder. It aint always as good as you think.

What he said.

Is meeting Mil-Spec an actual requirement for spaceflight components or is that just what tends to be used?
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
What he said.

Is meeting Mil-Spec an actual requirement for spaceflight components or is that just what tends to be used?

Not even that. Generally, spaceflight components are beyond MIL-Spec and its rather uncommon to see plain MIL-SPEC being used. The Space Shuttle for example had MIL-SPEC serial data busses, but the actual hardware for that had been space certified first. MIL-SPEC-1750 processors had been used in some projects, but the standard just defines the processor architecture, not the hardware implementation.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
Well...

Could he escape from jail by using a reusable SSTO? :rofl:
 

boogabooga

Bug Crusher
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
2,999
Reaction score
1
Points
0
I'm not terribly surprised.

This is something that I have in the back of my head for all the space start-ups that have more power point slides than hardware. I'm not sure where the line is between fraud and just being overly ambitious. Even if it starts out innocently enough, perhaps you reach a point where the ship is sinking and your investors...er...do not feel that you adequately explained the risks.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,616
Reaction score
2,336
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
I'm not terribly surprised.

This is something that I have in the back of my head for all the space start-ups that have more power point slides than hardware. I'm not sure where the line is between fraud and just being overly ambitious. Even if it starts out innocently enough, perhaps you reach a point where the ship is sinking and your investors...er...do not feel that you adequately explained the risks.

Also, most startups simply fail and go bankrupt. It is not like this is easier in space, just because the government is more likely to bail you out...
 
Top