General Question AMSO problem.

[Blacklight]

Every time I launch a mission in AMSO using the autopilot, the spacecraft burns up in the atmosphere midway through the launch for some reason. I've gone through all the instructions and have Orbiter configured exactly as recommended in the AMSO manual. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on ?

 

[statickid]

you forgot to turn off the self-destruct countdown switch!

 

[Wishbone]

Which was a joke. Do you have 'unlimited fuel' on? If so please turn it off.

 

[ACSoft]

Every time I launch a mission in AMSO using the autopilot, the spacecraft burns up in the atmosphere midway through the launch for some reason. I've gone through all the instructions and have Orbiter configured exactly as recommended in the AMSO manual. Anyone have a clue as to what's going on ?

Assuming you don't have 'unlimited fuel' set, did-you loose the autopilot (the white line on the bottom with "AP" disappear) at about 5 to 7 minutes in the flight ?

If yes, try to apply the patch "P2a" over AMSO version 1.19-P2.

ACS

 

[Blacklight]

Assuming you don't have 'unlimited fuel' set, did-you loose the autopilot (the white line on the bottom with "AP" disappear) at about 5 to 7 minutes in the flight ?

I don't have "unlimited fuel" checked. I do have the latest patch installed. I'll run the simulation again and check the autopilot thing to make sure.

 

[n122vu]

I had this same problem. Turns out the autopilot was actually disengaging itself consistently about MET 00:5:25 and the Saturn stack was pitching down into the atmosphere.

Patch P2a fixed it for me.

 

[Blacklight]

Okay. The auto pilot IS cutting out during launch. It cut off shortly after the second stage separation during two flights, and it cut off about one minute or so after launch of another flight.

 

[ACSoft]

Okay. The auto pilot IS cutting out during launch. It cut off shortly after the second stage separation during two flights, and it cut off about one minute or so after launch of another flight.

So you are at "P2a patch level" and it is really strange for me, that you have autopilot disconnections at the times you said.

For investigation purpose, please do the following:

Desactivate the joystick.
Desactivate any "Perturbations" options you may have activated.
Desactivate "Damage and Failure simulation" option, if active.
Desactivate all the plug'in modules you may have activated, excepted OrbiterSound.

Now, try several times to get the Earth orbit. Assuming it will work this way (otherwise, I cannot understand), by reactivating, one by one, what you deactivated, should reveal what caused the problem.

Good Luck & keep me informed !

ACS

 

[Blacklight]

Yes. I'm at the P2a patch level. I'm going to experiment by removing all mods and I'll also check out those parameters you suggested. When i ran the tests yesterday, I did have the "malfunctions" and "Perturbations" unchecked. I don't have a joystick. I'm running the sim on a laptop at the moment. I'll attempt running the sim on my desktop later tonight to see if I can duplicate the problem.

 

[kuddel]

AP-off on orbiter100903; AP-ok on orbiter100830

Hi ACS,

I've had similar problems (AP off after prox. 6-7 minutes) and thought,
that this might not be related to any addons.

I tried your "setup" (your last post) with Orbiter-P1 (orbiter100830) and it
worked perfectly (3 times to be sure )
Then I did the same with the latest beta release of Orbiter (orbiter100903)
and it failed!

So maybe it has more to do with the base orbiter installation!

Summary:

orbiter10 0830 |(+OrbiterSound3.5, +AMSO-119-P2a)|=> AOK
orbiter10 0903 |(+OrbiterSound3.5, +AMSO-119-P2a)|=> NOK

I did not try any change in the setup, cause I think with this test you
might have a chance to figure out the root-cause.

Cheers and keep up the good work,
Kuddel

P.S.: I tested with .\Scenarios\AMSO\All missions lift off\Apollo 14.scn

---------- Post added at 22:06 ---------- Previous post was at 20:59 ----------

Hi again,

out of curiosity I even tried another test setup (see my last post, too):
This time I did it with only the AMSO-119-P2 patch (not the P2a!)
And the autopilot worked great!

So now the Summary looks like this:

orbiter10 0830 |(+OrbiterSound3.5, +AMSO-119-P2a)|=> AOK
orbiter10 0830 |(+OrbiterSound3.5, +AMSO-119-P2)|=> AOK
orbiter10 0903 |(+OrbiterSound3.5, +AMSO-119-P2a)|=> NOK

Maybe this info helps (and does not produce more questionmarks above your head )

Cheers,
Kuddel

 

[Blacklight]

After removing all mods and doing a fresh, clean, install of AMSO. I ran the simulation five times. Two out of the five had no problem. Three out of five had the auto pilot drop out seemingly at random spots. Two of the three, had it drop out shortly after the second stage separated and the other one happened about a minute after launch.
:shrug:

 

[ACSoft]

Hi Guys,

Thanks to Kuddel, I just realized that since now, I just missed this Orbiter version "100903". I am still with the previous one, the "100830".

Something should have changed in this new version which obviously interfere with my Saturn V autopilot.

I must investigate.

ACS

---------- Post added at 12:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

OK, I have updated to last Orbiter version, WHICH IS NOW "100905".

Anyway, I have installed thIS new Orbiter patch "100905" and tested some launches, until Earth orbit. Since now, I made one Apollo 11 and one Apollo 14 without the smallest problem. I can't see ANY vessel behaviors differences at all, between both Orbiter versions.

Moreover, if you read the Orbiter "Patch.txt" doc file, it is written:

100903
* Changed the call sequence for Module::clbkSimulationEnd further down
the shutdown sequence to avoid deletion of interpreter instances while
still being accessed [issue #426]

100905
* Bug fix: ScriptMFD module: switching between different script MFD
modes was not possible.
* Bug fix: Celestial background textures were not deallocated at
simulation shutdown.

From my knowledge, I don't see here something suspicious who might explain an interference with my Saturn V autopilot.

Kuddel, maybe try with the last patch. Hopefully, all will work perfectly, which would mean "100903" wasn't a "good Number". Otherwise, the last thing I can see is the framerate.

The precision of the simulation depend obviously on the framerate. I mean, more computing cycles you can get per second, more precise will be the simulation of the physic's parameters. One of the "not so good" characteristic of my Saturn V autopilot, is that it should be probably relatively sensitive to this, almost during the first 7-8 minutes of the flight.

Hope this might help and I cross my fingers with the hope to read good news here !!!

ACS

 

[Ripley]

Hi Guys,
Thanks to Kuddel, I just realized that since now, I just missed this Orbiter version "100903". I am still with the previous one, the "100830".

Hi ACSoft.
I'm sure you know, but 100905 is a Beta version.
Latest official release is still 100830.

...The precision of the simulation depend obviously on the framerate. I mean, more computing cycles you can get per second, more precise will be the simulation of the physic's parameters...

Everybody turning Vsync off?

 

[ACSoft]

Beta or not beta, that's not the question !!! (LOL)

I don't think Vsync on or off will make a difference, as long as the computer is powerfull enough. I just made some ascent to orbit with or without Vsync and didn't see any differences in the rocket behaviors.

ACS

 

[Ripley]

According to this post, it seems that Vsync can make a difference, not always maybe - but if fps is a must, it could be worth disabling it.

http://orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=205467&postcount=4
(whole thread here)

See also this one, about the same issue in another game...
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=69901

 

[Blacklight]

Vsync on or off doesn''t make a bit of difference.

 

[kuddel]

Hi ACS,

From my knowledge, I don't see here something suspicious who might explain an interference with my Saturn V autopilot.

Me neither.. That's why I hoped not to produce more questions
The revision log of orbiter-betas is always the one I look at first.

Kuddel, maybe try with the last patch. Hopefully, all will work perfectly, which would mean "100903" wasn't a "good Number". Otherwise, the last thing I can see is the framerate.

I tried with the current 100905 beta of orbiter, but no luck today...
I did not even get one single good orbit insertion (could only try 2 launches)
Unfortunately I can not test any other setups/test-runs, 'cause I'm on
holiday for the next 3 weeks.

I think the problem is not really induced by the version of orbiter.
Nevertheless, keep searching

Maybe just one stupid uninitialized pointer/variable that slipped through.
Because these "sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't" smells like this.
But to be honest, I have no idea why my setup doesn't work today.

I will happily do more investigations on this when I'm back. But I hope that
the issue disappeared by then :-D

Cheers, and happy orbiting (hopefully not only around this issue )
Kuddel

 

[ACSoft]

According to this post, it seems that Vsync can make a difference, not always maybe - but if fps is a must, it could be worth disabling it.

http://orbiter-forum.com/showpost.php?p=205467&postcount=4
(whole thread here)

See also this one, about the same issue in another game...
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=69901

Thanks for the links, interesting stuff !

Yes, Ripley. Generally and theoretically speaking, Vsync can make a difference. But in the particular case of affecting my autopilot, I doubt it will, AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A MACHINE POWERFUL ENOUGH, as I said in my answer.

OK, with a PC which is not powerful enough, to have this option Vsync set, may force a futher FPS reduction, because, I think that the system, if it cannot use the Vsync, will try to use a down multiple of it.

Speaking of the frame rate, it would be interesting to know how behave Orbiter + AMSO on the PC of "Blacklight".

ACS

 

[Blacklight]

Speaking of the frame rate, it would be interesting to know how behave Orbiter + AMSO on the PC of "Blacklight".

I'm getting about 8-9 frames per second till I clear the tower. It pops up to between 18-20 beyond that. I ran four tests. Twice, the auto pilot crapped out shortly after the 7 minute mark (No changing of frame rate). It was during the time when the rocket was adjusting itself up and down to keep level with the horizon. It oscillated up and down and then the autopilot cut out and it just kept spinning with the engines still going. So AP disappeared. The engine kept burning but the spacecraft lost direction control.

 

[ACSoft]

I'm getting about 8-9 frames per second till I clear the tower. It pops up to between 18-20 beyond that. I ran four tests. Twice, the auto pilot crapped out shortly after the 7 minute mark (No changing of frame rate). It was during the time when the rocket was adjusting itself up and down to keep level with the horizon. It oscillated up and down and then the autopilot cut out and it just kept spinning with the engines still going. So AP disappeared. The engine kept burning but the spacecraft lost direction control.

Blacklight, I fear your frame rate is a bit critical, especially at the very beginning of the flight. With my autopilot, a trajectory error at the very beginning of flight can greatly affect the whole flight profile and cause a later lost of control. Try the following:

Set your Orbiter in cockpit 2d screen mode, with display of frame rate option ON. This way, you should probably have the best possible frame rate for your machine. Make some launch and stay scotched in this display mode until after 7 minutes (since after the second stage center engine is cut).

If it work, you may try to abandon the 2d screen earlier. In fact, you will probably be able to determine the "critical zone" by reading the frame rate evolution. Maybe it is just the very beginning of the flight who is critical ?

Tell us what you will learn with these experiences.

Thanks in forward for your help.

ACS


PS:
As it is possible to read the frame rate from within the code, maybe, with you precious help for trying eventual solutions, I will be able to improve this autopilot code.