Question A new PC...?

[Orbinaut Pete]

Hi all.

The purpose of this thread is to ask for advice on purchasing a new PC.

OK, now this is going to take a bit of explaining.

Firstly, I have 2 PC's: 1 Laptop & 1 Desktop.

-----------------------------------

My Laptop is purely for working purposes & performs fine, mainly because I only have publishing programs in it, and no programs for fun/entertainment/gaming.

The specs of my Laptop are:
Type: Toshiba Equium L40
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32 bit
CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core @ 1.73GHz
RAM: 2GB
HDD: 110GB
Graphics card: Mobile Intel 945 Express Chipset Family (256MB)
Overall Windows Experience Index: 3.0
Age: 1 year 8 months (purchased in Aug 07)

I'm happy with this PC for working purposes, however it does slow a bit while running games & other high demanding programs.
I don't want a slow PC interfering with work.
I therefore tend to keep it just for working purposes, & there is not too much entertainment/hobby/gaming software on there. Main program is Office 2007.
Also, this Laptop is unsuitable for playing games on anyway, due to the size of the keyboard, etc.

-----------------------------------

Now, my Desktop (which is what I run Orbiter from, main reason being that Orbiter on a laptop & with no proper keyboard is fiddly & difficult to use).

The specs of my Desktop are:
Type: Dell Dimension 3100
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32 bit (upgraded, came with XP Home installed)
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 @ 2.80GHz
RAM: 2GB (upgraded, came with 512MB)
HDD: 75GB
Graphics card: Intel 82915G/GV/910GL Express Chipset Family (128MB)
Overall Windows Experience Index: 1.0
Age: 3 years 2 months (purchased in Dec 05)

This PC is starting to get slooowww now. Even just basic things like opening a folder can take 10 seconds or more. Programs are being released now which this computer simply can't hack.
It can't run any of the latest games.

Putting Vista on this really slowed it up massively, even when no other programs were installed.

I had been under the impression that Orbiter had been working OK on this PC.
During high-graphics processes like Shuttle launch, I got 2-3 FPS.
But in LEO with the XR2 I get about 17 FPS, which is the max I can get on Orbiter & I was under the impression this was fast!
However, reading around this forum, I saw someone say that they consider 13 FPS during a shuttle launch to be LOW!, and I also saw someone who claimed to get 80 FPS out of Orbiter.
I now see that my PC must be pretty bad, and it is getting a little annoying try--ing--to--launch--the--shu--ttle--like--this (dashes supposed to simulate screen jumping due to low FPS)

-----------------------------------

So, I have decided to buy a new PC:speakcool:

This is where I need the advice & collective computer expertise of the O-F community

I have been considering a new PC for a while, but it never got beyond a fantasy at 2AM (not that I lay awake at 2AM fantasizing about computers...)

I use my Desktop for entertainment/hobby purposes. Things such as music, picture editing, watching video, browsing the net, gaming, MSN etc.

I definitely want a high-end, probably gaming PC, to be able to run things such as the latest games, Orbiter, HD video, and also just lightening speed for simple tasks.

The minimum specs I am looking at are:
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32 bit (I would eventually upgrade to Windows 7)
Processor: Intel Quad Core (although i'm not opposed to AMD, so long as they are good)
Which Intel processor is best out of these?

RAM: 4GB
HDD: 800GB (maybe 1TB?)
Graphics card: NVIDEA/ATI, HD driver would be good

I would rather not mess with buying individual components seperatly, then building it myself, as A) I don't have the time, and B) I don't have the skills.

Peripherals:

I would like at least a 20" flat-panel wide-screen monitor, maybe with HD capability.

A good quality wireless keyboard & mouse is a bonus also.

+ good speakers.

I don't mind buying all this stuff separately, but a package that includes it all would be easier.

I really want a PC that can give me performance, and I don't mind paying for it.

I have adequate funds for this venture, but obviously I am looking for lowest price possible (but NOT at the expense if quality), I would rather pay more for good quality than pay less for poor quality.


So far I have been considering the Dell XPS.

Or should I wait until Windows 7 is released?

But what would you recommend? Specs? Brands? Stores? A specific PC?



Thanks,

-Pete

 

[T.Neo]

Why not use Windows XP?

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Why not use Windows XP?

Because, although Vista may have it's problems, "once you've used it, you can never go back"...

 

[T.Neo]

Because, although Vista may have it's problems, "once you've used it, you can never go back"...

I believe XP uses less system rescources, freeing them up for games. I know XP may not look as good as Vista, but if you're using the computer for games, I'd be far more concerned with the appearance of the game then the OS (which you don't have to look at while you are playing the game.)

 

[Eagle]

Your laptop should be more than good enough for several years to come.

Before you replace your desktop I would suggest wiping the harddrive and reinstalling what you're still interested in. A lot of dumb programs accumulate crud into your OS that doesn't come out when they are uninstalled. If you want to learn about the .dll's that make up XP you can clean it by hand, but its not easy. Run the system lean with OS eyecandy off. Back up your files first. Cleaning out the dust inside the case will help with your cooling too.


For speakers I suggest hooking up a full stereo to your computer. I have a Philips FW-C777 Gameport Mini System hooked up to my laptop via USB. That means I have 4 1'' mini tweeters, 2 2'' tweeters, 2 6.5'' Woofers hooked up to some ferofluid W00x thing. But yeah, use a full stereo if you want really really nice sound. Make sure you can hook it up to your comp with a good enough link. I use USB, but some nice soundcards have outputs for fiber optic cable.

 

[Stripe]

http://www.ninjapirate.com/newcomputer.html

:lol:

Sorry, i'm at work at the moment, but i'll give your post a proper read when i'm at home. I see you asked about the latest i7 processors.

What types of games are you looking at running? - if you were after the likes of Crysis then maybe you could justify a Nehalem or suchlike. Pretty much anything else you could probably get away with something a bit lower spec.

Actually, i've been wondering for a while if it's more about the power of the gfx card than the cpu... So any processor from the recent past would probably be sufficient. Do not get something with onboard graphics!

I've been out of the loop for a long time though (where gaming is concerned) my 'ancient' AMD XP 2200+ manages just fine, but then like I say i've not really progressed much in the gaming world.

Anyway, i'll come back to this thread later and have a proper read.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Before you replace your desktop I would suggest wiping the harddrive and reinstalling what you're still interested in. A lot of dumb programs accumulate crud into your OS that doesn't come out when they are uninstalled. If you want to learn about the .dll's that make up XP you can clean it by hand, but its not easy. Back up your files first. Cleaning out the dust inside the case will help with your cooling too.

I have actually already done this. I re-formatted the HDD before I installed Vista, and all I currently have on there is the programs I absolutely want/need. I have been through the "Program Files" folder and "C/Users/Me/appdata" folders & cleared out all the garbage files manually (a couple of 'gig's). I have also preformed a full registry clean.

I believe XP uses less system rescources, freeing them up for games. I know XP may not look as good as Vista, but if you're using the computer for games, I'd be far more concerned with the appearance of the game then the OS (which you don't have to look at while you are playing the game.)

I agree that XP is less resource hungry, but the only problem is, in maybe 2 years max, programs will stop being developed for XP, especially when Windows 7 is released. So XP will be unusable in a few years anyway. Updates, etc. will probably stop as well.

 

[T.Neo]

I agree that XP is less resource hungry, but the only problem is, in maybe 2 years max, programs will stop being developed for XP, especially when Windows 7 is released. So XP will be unusable in a few years anyway. Updates, etc. will probably stop as well.

I thought Win7 was to be released soon though. Would it be possible to stick with XP until 7 is released?

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

I thought Win7 was to be released soon though. Would it be possible to stick with XP until 7 is released?

Well I don't actually have XP on any machine.
I didn't get a disk with my PC for it, and the money I could spend on purchasing it is less money I would have for a new PC.

And although XP may increase the speed of existing programs, the latest programs & games would still be unusable on my Desktop.

So I'm still looking to replace the whole thing, I think

(Windows 7 is supposed to have all the benefits of Vista & more, while only using nearly the same amount of resources as XP, definitely less than Vista at any rate)

 

[TSPenguin]

Many computer stores offer to build a system out of the parts you purchase for a small fee (20+ bucks). And getting exactly the parts you want and need + the ability to RMA a single part is just so much better than the usual pre built systems.

In general, I'd recommend waiting a little, then get an i7. You will get solid performance for years to come without the need to sell your soul to afford it.
You should go with 8 GB Ram (or even more, RAM is virtualy free nowadays).
HDDs are something that is better upgraded when needed. Prices are dropping constantly and sizes increase. Get a cheap 500GB now and buy a TB for the same price in a few months. A great opportunity to safe a few bucks which are much better invested in a better GPU.
GPU... Totaly dependand on the time you actualy buy your parts. HD drivers are a thing which does not exist. Most GPUs nowadays accelerate decoding (some even encoding) of MPEG2 and H.264 which is only interesting for HTPCs as a normal desktop CPU can do it very easily (on one core).
Screen, yeah... I for one hate the industry for making CRTs disappear, but well, we have to live with it. If you really want to go HD (aka 1080p) you will have to get a 24" model. Panel is everything! Doing your research is of the outmost importancy!!!
Soundsystem... If you don't use your home stereo and want something dedicated for your PC the question becomes how many speakers you want. If you want just stereo, buy a logitech Z-2300 and be happy for the rest of your life (no joke, perfect computer sound system!). If you want more speakers, keep in mind that going beyond 5.1 will only make a difference if you really plan to build a home cinema setup. You do not need Dolby Digital (AC3) and DTS decoding capability in your system. That means you do not need digital input (coax or optical). Digital connections can only transport a stereo signal or a compressed surround signal. But since you do all the decoding in software to avoid having to compensate audio lag, you are much better off investing 30 bucks in a proper soundcard. The difference between an X-Fi and an on-board HD audio chipset is enormous, getting a good soundcard IS worth it.

Whatever you do, DO YOUR RESEARCH! And find good competent sources. Tom's Hardware should be your first stop. Especialy for displays you should find a specialized site like prad.de (which is only german, sorry). Research is everything. Oh and btw, anything below 30fps is considered unplayable

Happy Orbiting

 

[T.Neo]

I'm sorry if I'm going off topic here, but I am considering upgrading my video card.
I'm not sure what video card I have, but there was a sticker on it that said:
Radeon 9200 SE 128M DDR TVO
What is my video card?
How much would an upgrade cost?

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

I'm sorry if I'm going off topic here, but I am considering upgrading my video card.
I'm not sure what video card I have, but there was a sticker on it that said:
Radeon 9200 SE 128M DDR TVO
What is my video card?
How much would an upgrade cost?

For more info on your graphics card, go to: Control Panel/Hardware & Sound/View Hardware & Devices
& select the graphics devices tab

(assuming you use Windows)

 

[agentgonzo]

I'm sorry if I'm going off topic here, but I am considering upgrading my video card.
I'm not sure what video card I have, but there was a sticker on it that said:
Radeon 9200 SE 128M DDR TVO
What is my video card?

It's an ATI Radeon 9200 SE with 128Mb of DDR and TVO

How much would an upgrade cost?

The cost of whichever new Graphics card you replace it with

 

[T.Neo]

For more info on your graphics card, go to: Control Panel/Hardware & Sound/View Hardware & Devices
& select the graphics devices tab

Firstly, my control panel doesn't seem to have a Hardware & Sound, Veiw Hardware & Devices or Graphis Devices Tab.
That's why I had to open up my computer to see the guts inside.
Secondly, what "more info" will this give me?

(assuming you use Windows)

Would I be able to run Orbiter on anything else?

EDIT:
@agentgonzo:
Thanks. I was suspecting that.
Do you have any recommendations on graphics cards?

 

[TSPenguin]

If you want information about your graphics card (Including if it is PCI, AGP or PCI-E) use GPU-Z.

And we seriously can't recommend any card if we don't know how much you want to spend on it.

 

[T.Neo]

And we seriously can't recommend any card if we don't know how much you want to spend on it.

As little as possible as long as it is an improvement over the old one

 

[TSPenguin]

Then you can pick up the cheapest card your local dealer has...

 

[Bj]

Here is a good list of new graphics cards from NIVIDIA
http://www.nvidia.com/object/graphics_cards_buy_now.html

You can also go here and do a nice search for EVGA graphic cards

http://www.evga.com/products/search.asp

Edit;

By all appearances, if you have a somewhat old motherboard (like one that only has PCI slots) then it looks like this is your best option, You might consider upgrading the power supply. This particular card requires 250 watts.


Edit2;

this site is much better
http://www.nvidia.com/HelpMeChoose/fx/HelpMeChoose.asp

 

[TSPenguin]

Or you could check some benchmarks: http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/graphics-cards,1.html

 

[T.Neo]

It's a foreign language to me.
Some of those prices scared me a bit
However, would a GeForce 9400 GT 512MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI be any better then my current card?