Updates Artemis

[barrygolden]

Just some new updates about Artemis.
the GAO has released a report with state that only 4 SLS's are funded at this time but there is a decadal survey through Artemis 8. The Artemis plan seems pretty up in the air for now with the uncertainty about the Artemis 3 flight the report states that looks like no landing but an LEO fight to a Moonship but there needs to be a look at Orion in LEO and what would need to change for that to happen.
New images of the EUS have it with white paint

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

I don't think the program makes sense if it continues like that.

 

[barrygolden]

Yes your right . Artemis seems to be like a balloon floating through air with a leak in it. today NASA's budget is such a small part of our spending other than we see it where we don''t other things like Ukraine aid or these new woke policy's that go un seen.
Back in 1985 NASA was lost in space then challenger and the Sally Ride report got them back on track then 20 years later the train was off the tracks again and the Augustine report shined a really bad light but told the Truth about project Constellation and it was canceled as it should have been. I think if this Artemis program keeps floating in the wind next year we should have another Ride/Augustine committee and this too will be canceled. I wish I still had some of the seven grafts that Sally Ride showed to bring light to project Constellation. I think the air is just about out of this balloon and its about to fall to Earth. I might send a question to Ted Cruz to see if we could see those grafts about Artemis.

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

Yes your right . Artemis seems to be like a balloon floating through air with a leak in it. today NASA's budget is such a small part of our spending other than we see it where we don''t other things like Ukraine aid or these new woke policy's that go un seen.
Back in 1985 NASA was lost in space then challenger and the Sally Ride report got them back on track then 20 years later the train was off the tracks again and the Augustine report shined a really bad light but told the Truth about project Constellation and it was canceled as it should have been. I think if this Artemis program keeps floating in the wind next year we should have another Ride/Augustine committee and this too will be canceled. I wish I still had some of the seven grafts that Sally Ride showed to bring light to project Constellation. I think the air is just about out of this balloon and its about to fall to Earth. I might send a question to Ted Cruz to see if we could see those grafts about Artemis.

Yeah. The sad news is, that things keep moving basically due to the ISS in orbit and the Commercial Crew Program going on. But other than that, the manned US space program lost its focus I think. Politicians and people have to understand that one needs to gain experience and progress, in order to explore space and advance beyond low earth orbit manned. You can not do that if you only launch once a year or even once every two years, while further required hardware is uncertain. It's ridiculous.

To me the important question is not, if space flight is "too" expensive. The important question is: how much is exploration worth? The annual NASA budget equals the budget the German governments spends on the German social system in 2024. I personally consider NASA underfunded. Other voices complain that NASA is just a giant job-program. Yes, it is, so what? Again: how much is exploration worth? And, how much should exploration be worth? Do we want to progress, or keep sitting in a cave in front of a campfire?

Also, China is not waiting. I bet they will fly to the Moon, manned. Their space station already is quite presentable and impressive.

 

[barrygolden]

well said and yes NASA is underfunded but I think their goals aren't well defined the Ride report told NASA it needed real defined goals and thats how we got on the right track to get the ISS and the Earth Observation Satellites and a wealth of knowledge about our home

 

[Urwumpe]

As long as NASA can't give the LEO business completely to commercial providers and the NASA budget doesn't grow a lot, things will stay like that. Don't forget that the effective NASA budget was about twice as high as it is today, when they wanted to go to the moon the first time, maybe even higher including PPP.

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

Don't forget that the effective NASA budget was about twice as high as it is today, when they wanted to go to the moon the first time, maybe even higher including PPP.

Yeah. It's amazing when you think about the actual reason for this: because of a 58 cm metal sphere that could actually do nothing but just send a continuous "beep beep beep beep..." for three weeks. And the resulting launch schedule of the US space program was awesome. 31 manned missions within only 12 years (until and including ASTP), if I counted correctly. And if you include all the test flights and the launch of Skylab, it was actually something like 50 launches or so, when ASTP concluded the Apollo/Skylab program only 12 years after the first Mercury flight. We got a lunar lander, a lunar rover, an extraordinary evolution of space suits, 3 different spacecraft, etc. And only eight years later:



Although they used existing LVs/LVs that were already in development, from Mercury through Apollo, a lot of things where done for the very first time back then. NASA literally launched into the unknown every few months. When Kennedy announced the Moon landing before this decade is out, I think NASA had an experience of 15 minutes of space flight, suborbital only. It even was before Grissom's Mercury flight, if I remember the dates correctly.

When I look at the schedule that barrygolden posted above, I don't have to worry about sleep problems. It's a perfect sleeping pill since everything beyond Artemis II is actually uncertain. Good night

 

[barrygolden]

Kennedy was hell bent on beating the Russians on the world stage and landing on the Moon goal did just that and set us up as the number 1 super power with out a war. LBJ was truly a space cowboy and saw what Kennedy saw and valled to see it through. NASA had an open checkbook through Apollo13 but after Apollo 11 they were told to start looking at it and so Apollo 18,19 and 20 were canceled. Nixon like the cost savings with the Shuttle and so we went with that until 1986 . I think Biden will keep Artemis afloat but not sure about Trump I think he is more like Nixon.
NASA budget rose to $ 300 billion in todays dollars during Apollo but only $ 25 billion today for NASA .
I look at Artemis and scratch my head , Orion needs a better service module like the one planned for Constellation so save that money for gateway and all the launches it would cost to get it up there and use that money for a semi reusable lander like Altair or the LM lander and just use the Falcon Heavy to fly up a fully fueled descent stage to dock to the reusable cabin and fly this twice a year. Look at all we would save in just refueling flights

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

I think Biden will keep Artemis afloat but not sure about Trump I think he is more like Nixon.

I'm not so sure about Trump. Afaik he was/is in favor of Moon landings. Would fit his agenda of make America great again...

NASA budget rose to $ 300 billion in todays dollars during Apollo but only $ 25 billion today for NASA .

NASA was a giant sandbox back then I think, with very supportive parents that would buy their kids literally everything they wanted to have. The Golden Age of space flight.

 

[MarkWatney2015]

I think Artemis will survive whoever wins the next US elections, though I can't say about how much funding Congress will give NASA for it

 

[barrygolden]

I like the sandbox idea and i was able to find the first of the Sally Ride grafts . it is hard to read but i tried to explain it.
this the first of 7 grafts and as you can see Constellation was a dead man walking.
I will work on the others to show you guys as well
the COTs program is one of those lines as well and remember this is from 14 years ago

 

[richfororbit]

The artemis mission with the current crew was suppose to be this year, I wasn't aware that had changed until a few months back.

Artemis three was a landing somewhere on the moon using a company to build one, and what ever that involved. Beyond that, I don't think there was much going, simply because all this has yet to really occur first. A then gateway station for the moon's orbit. There is a bit of a radiation out there, depending on how long a crew would stay there.

I don't know if China will get there with more progress, but hmm, I think the American program probably will beat them to it.

 

[barrygolden]

Yes Artemis 2, the first manned mission was planned for this year but pushed back a year due to Boeing slow walking the SLS build and a heat shield issue. I wonder if the EFT mission showed the issue with the heat shield ? This Gateway station might start to launch in 2027 or 2028 and that is about the time I see an attempt to land at the South pole Maybe with Artemis 4 if the project is still going.

 

[Urwumpe]

the COTs program is one of those lines as well and remember this is from 14 years ago

The graphics are for Constellation though, not Artemis. Artemis is NOT the continuation of Constallation with different names. There are many differences to the current plans: https://www.nasa.gov/budgets-plans-and-reports/

 

[barrygolden]

Yes as stated earlier maybe time to have these grafts made for Artemis

 

[richfororbit]

The American government is committed to the program, what ever may happen. Strategic reasons is pushing this.

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

The American government is committed to the program, what ever may happen. Strategic reasons is pushing this.

Next year there might be a different government though.

One should take nothing in life for granted. Less than ever political talk and decisions.

 

[richfororbit]

I'm sure of it. I doubt the program will face any shortage of money.

America may not have a strong lead in certain areas, but the space program is vital, to power and the economy. I don't particularly like this road, but in order to make some progress, I can't imagine just the private companies going it alone in their own ventures. Space exploration technologies being the main one with the ambitious rockets being built.

 

[TheShuttleExperience]

I doubt the program will face any shortage of money.

I think it already does

Artemis 2 might lift off late next year, which would be three years after Artemis 1. Artemis 3 might lift off another year later, at the earliest, with the landing-part likely canceled for that mission. Any further mission is written in the stars...

 

[Urwumpe]

I think it already does

If you wanted to do it the most economic way without wasting money for tasks without value, it could easily need 4 or 5 times the money....